Advice on budget Sabre and Sidesword

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Advice on budget Sabre and Sidesword

Postby Nemo » 09 Feb 2015 21:40

Hi everyone!
First of all, I am a complete novice as I got into HEMA since no more than a couple of months, so please forgive my questions if they are too silly or unreasonable :)
As I said, I am just getting into HEMA thanks to a friend who used to be into the local historical swordsmanship group years back, and I wanted to ask some advice before I buy the wrong sword for solo training. We decided to go for Nylon blades (the basket hilt sold on the knight shop) for sparring, but I'd like to have more of a "steel" feeling when I practice techniques on my own.
I was wondering if anyone can recommend a budget Sabre and Sidesword for the purpose, though it wouldn't be bad if I could use them for sparring as well when I get better). I'm basically asking about specific brands.

I wanted to go for the Easton Sabre but it's been out of stock for a while now, and the only other budget one available on the hema shop is a hutton model by hanwei (so big nono, I guess!)

As for the sidesword, I want to try that out since I generally prefer straight blades over curved ones (does it sound unreasonable to use it like a sabre? I mean, comfortably in terms of weight and length)


Thanks in advance! And once more sorry if my questions sounds too newbish or silly! :D

Fabio

p.s. the local source is not available anymore so I can't get any information here, sadly :(
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Re: Advice on budget Sabre and Sidesword

Postby Magnus Hagelberg » 12 Feb 2015 14:22

If you only intend to cut in the air with it. I suggest getting antique weapons. such as a sabre in decent condition. In case you don't like it. you often get your money back when trading in antiques.
And you will also have the best possible ballance and feel that you can aquire.
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Re: Advice on budget Sabre and Sidesword

Postby Nemo » 12 Feb 2015 15:40

Thanks for your help!
Any suggestion about this? I'd like to stick to a low budget if possible, but ultimately it would be good if I could use it for sparring as well, when I get a bit better and can safely get away from synthetic ones :)
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Re: Advice on budget Sabre and Sidesword

Postby Magnus Hagelberg » 12 Feb 2015 23:38

antiques are not for sparring. So if this is your goal. It's better to save up some and get a Regeney or a knightshopp easton model once they are available.
Untill then I'd go with the Nylons. It's just not worth shelling out on a flimsy blade you won't be using after half a year or so.
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Re: Advice on budget Sabre and Sidesword

Postby Nemo » 13 Feb 2015 09:37

Thanks for the suggestion!
Well sparring is my later goal, but I can use nyolons at the beginning. As for antiques, since I need a license for sharp blades in italy (a costy license), is there anyone who sells them unsharpened? I mean, any internet resource (it seems Matt is selling them still sharp, from what I can tell)
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Re: Advice on budget Sabre and Sidesword

Postby Magnus Hagelberg » 13 Feb 2015 16:23

some sabres are sharp. Some are not!
It depends on if the order to sharpen blades has been given.
-If the unit was set to ready status or not.
So both kinds exsist.
It's sad that you need a license for owning a sharp sabre - kitchen knives are much worse when it comes to dangerous activity. It's an antique!.. you don't want to harm it! :)
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Re: Advice on budget Sabre and Sidesword

Postby Nemo » 13 Feb 2015 16:37

Hm! I'll try to find blunt ones then! It might be tough though :/
Yeah we do need licenses for everything considered a weapon, we can't even import blunt ones from the USA it seems :( That's why I'm stuck to the EU market. I found a site where they're selling custom sabres (Negrini), though their handles are pretty poor, blades seem half decent italian dueling ones (STM 2000)

http://www.negrini.com/eng.php?content= ... &id_menu=5

They seem more on the sports side rather than hema though
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Re: Advice on budget Sabre and Sidesword

Postby Dave B » 13 Feb 2015 16:38

I'm interested that you need a licence for sharp swords, which country are you in?

I know that here in england there are many rules about weapons (such as pistols or swordcanes) which have exemptions or relaxations for genuine antiques, so this may be worth looking into.

Other than that - what Magnus said. I have a number of swords I bought years ago because they were a little cheaper then the 'right thing', and they gather dust, whereas where I bought the right sword I still use them after many years. It's better to wait.

I am very fond of my regenyi sabre.
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Re: Advice on budget Sabre and Sidesword

Postby Nemo » 13 Feb 2015 16:45

I live in Italy, and it sounds even daunting to have to look somewhere else to find a decent sword/sabre...doesn't it? :D
I asked regenyei if they do italian style ones as well, i'd like to try and go closer to the specs of Parise's book
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Re: Advice on budget Sabre and Sidesword

Postby Dave B » 13 Feb 2015 21:36

Sorry, I think people have been assuming you mean heavier types, with you mentioning the 'Easton' sabre before. Although i don't think much of the Hutton sabre, I wonder if something like a Henwei Pecoraro might do you. They are cheap and don't seem too awful from my limited experience.
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Re: Advice on budget Sabre and Sidesword

Postby Nemo » 13 Feb 2015 21:44

Well I thought the Easton one was not excessively heavy for Parise's sabre style, considering it seems (forgive, once more, my lack of experience) thicker compared to radaelli or pecoraro. As for the Hawei ones, They to seem decent to some extent, however blades are completely straight, and Parise's have a slight curvature, which I've been told is necessary to fully understand and perform the style (the blade's curve, I mean).
Also Hanwei's seem to be underweighted on those models as well
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Re: Advice on budget Sabre and Sidesword

Postby Dave B » 14 Feb 2015 16:28

We are out of my area of expertise, but the Parise sabre looks quite a lot lighter than the easton one to me, having quite a bit of taper, but it is as you say, curved.
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Re: Advice on budget Sabre and Sidesword

Postby Nemo » 14 Feb 2015 16:38

Well yeah I found some specs on the forums, it is lighter than the easton, I guess it's because the easton is 2.34cm wide, while the Parise specification is 2cm (along with other things as well, I presume) at the base.
I tried asking Regenyei and other smiths if they do make custom sabres, waiting for them to answer :)
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Re: Advice on budget Sabre and Sidesword

Postby Dave B » 14 Feb 2015 18:20

If I wanted something like that I'd be tempted to ask Marco Danelli - have a look at the blade on the radaelli on his sabres page. But he's a fair bit more pricy than regenyi.

http://www.danelliarmouries.com/index.php/custom-swords/sabres
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Re: Advice on budget Sabre and Sidesword

Postby Nemo » 14 Feb 2015 19:07

Wow, it does seem to be meeting those criteria as far as i can tell from the image, I'll ask him right away!
Thanks a lot for your help, really appreciated!
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Re: Advice on budget Sabre and Sidesword

Postby Chris Holzman » 15 Feb 2015 19:26

With regard to the Parise and Radaellian sabres, Capt. Cav. Del Frate, who wrote the textbook for his friend Radaelli's school, specified a sabre weighing 720g (350g blade and 370g hilt) in 1868. Parise failed to give weights, but specifies a 20mm blade at the base, that tapers to a 10mm point. Having scaled the drawings from Parise and the 1876 Del Frate/Radaelli, both come out about 20mm tapering to a 10mm point. The major difference is that Del Frate wanted a 90cm blade and Parise wanted an 88cm blade. Also, Del Frate/Radaelli illustrated a deeply curved blade (about 38mm), and Parise a less curved blade, (about 22mm).

Marco Danelli has a blueprint that I drew from an antique fencing sabre a few years ago, which is 20mm at the base and 10mm at the point, and Marco has made that blade in several variants, but confirms that it comes out right at 350g when made directly to the blueprint. I also recently sent him a another blueprint, for an almost identical blade to the Del Frate/Radaelli illustration, with 38mm depth of curve though I don't think he has made one yet. This blade was also drawn from an antique. I'm sure Marco can deliver exactly what you're looking for. I've got good catalog illustrations of the Parise 1st and 2nd model guards I can send him, and a good friend of mine has a 2nd model Parise sabre that I could get guard measurements or even a tracing from for him/you if needed.

In the USA, Castille will be making the 20mm to 10mm blade with 38mm curve, and likely also a lighter 16mm blade, probably with the lesser curve, though that isn't settled yet.

If I were in your shoes, and lived in Italy, I'd probably look around for a vintage fencing sabre. I have just purchased (and am waiting to receive) a pair of such sabres from an gun/sword/archery sales website in Italy, via an Italian friend. The pair, shipped to the USA, cost me 230 Euros plus 40 Euros. One appears to have a 25mm blade, and the other an 18 or 20mm blade, and look to be in great shape.
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Re: Advice on budget Sabre and Sidesword

Postby Nemo » 15 Feb 2015 21:44

Thank you so much for the exhaustive explanation, Mr. Holzman!
Indeed I noticed Marco's blades are what would suit my needs, I just looked at the prices (of course quality has a price) and fainted a bit :D
As for the local source, that's where I looked at the beginning. The experience has been.. daunting (really). I emailed some people, and phoned others, and while I'm still waiting for some of the first to answer, the most common response at the phone was "No idea", even if I asked people who used to be into a re-enactment local group (there was some sort of medieval re-enactment years back).

That's why I started looking elsewhere, basically. But I think it's because I lack enough knowledge of the market; so, if you could give me some hints on this, like where I could look (if your italian friends has some sources), that would be great! 230 for the pair seems a great deal indeed :)


Thanks Again!
Fabio
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Re: Advice on budget Sabre and Sidesword

Postby Chris Holzman » 16 Feb 2015 03:26

Nemo wrote:Thank you so much for the exhaustive explanation, Mr. Holzman!
Indeed I noticed Marco's blades are what would suit my needs, I just looked at the prices (of course quality has a price) and fainted a bit :D
As for the local source, that's where I looked at the beginning. The experience has been.. daunting (really). I emailed some people, and phoned others, and while I'm still waiting for some of the first to answer, the most common response at the phone was "No idea", even if I asked people who used to be into a re-enactment local group (there was some sort of medieval re-enactment years back).

That's why I started looking elsewhere, basically. But I think it's because I lack enough knowledge of the market; so, if you could give me some hints on this, like where I could look (if your italian friends has some sources), that would be great! 230 for the pair seems a great deal indeed :)


Thanks Again!
Fabio

Fabio,

These are the blueprints that I've supplied to Marco. https://www.facebook.com/21956435478284 ... =1&theater If you click the 'back to album' link, or the main book title page link, you'll find some additional shots of these blueprints, and some other good information. Here is a photo of one of the first blades Marco made on my lesser curved blueprint (even a little straighter and a bit shorter at the request of the particular client). https://www.facebook.com/21956435478284 ... =3&theater

Also, check your private messages.
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Re: Advice on budget Sabre and Sidesword

Postby Nemo » 16 Feb 2015 09:30

Thank you so much!
Just answered, I'm deeply thankful for your help! (great blueprints by the way)
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