Picking up a new weapon - help me choose

[Gil-Galadh]

So, for the last four-five years I've been training exclusively with the longsword. However, our group recently had to suspend activities, because of the economical situation and other reasons.
I've also wanted to start training with a different weapon for some time, and now that I finally got the opportunity to do so, I can't seem to decide what to prefer.
I like S&B , but also bolognese sidesword (and pasta), I also wanted to try rapier and have Guy WIndsor's "Duelists companion", and finally I find 19-th century saber really interesting (mainly due to the articles and accounts Matt posts here).
I also have virtually no money, a couple of wasters, the possibility to acquire a 19th century saber, and no training partners.
So what would you reccomend as best? Arguments such as "A is cooler than B" will also be taken in consideration

tl;dr: TIred of longsword, want to pick up a new weapon, that I can train mostly solo. Sell me on one.

Thanks in advance

Thanks in advance

[admin]

Sabre sources are simple and easy to understand, but there are lots of them and lots therefore to read.

Bolognese sources are complicated and unless you are fluent in Italian you have to rely on translations.

In terms of working alone, the Bolognese material may hold your interest for longer - IMO the sabre material is fairly basic as far as solo study is concerned - the advantage of this simplicity is that you can get people fencing in the system quickly and learning whilst they fence. Whereas for solo study the Bolognese material may hold your interest for longer (especially as there are lots of solo exercises in the Bolognese books).

[Ulrich von L...n]

Victor,

I would recommend sabre too. As Matt has pointed out:
- a lot of sabre manuals,
- relatively easy to learn,

some additional things:
- relatively cheap,
- probably some Bulgarian manuals,
- a good opportunity to study the fencing history of your own country,
- a "cool" factor: sabre duelling,
- a "macho" factor: see the above

There are a lot of sources for military sabre (Burton, Hutton, Waite, superb Swedish manuals etc.), for duelling / sport sabre (Barbasetti). The sabre is easy to learn, but could be very complex later on, which might provide you with a lot of intellectual excitement. It is relatively cheap: you can start sabre fencing with two Olympic sabres (yes, they are a bit whippy, but this is the price for being able to cut & trust safely, and more or less without causing too much pain to your training partner). In Hungary two sport sabres cost roughly 2/3 of a cheap replica sabre (1835). The opportunity of unearthing the fencing history could be very exciting.

Regarding the most difficult issue: no training partner. The simplest solution: find somebody (a complete novice, a re-enactor etc.), who has enough determination, enthusiasm to learn sabre fencing, at least moderate athletic capabilities, and teach him. After a couple of weeks it would be interesting, and even challenging to fight him, especially when you put yourself in a disadvantageous position while fencing with him.

Regards,

[Bulot]

XVIIth century Pique, Flags, Partisan and french sticks.
A good amount of sources by Paschen, that have not been studied. Almost exclusively solo work. Simulators are cheap and easy to DIY

[John H]

I’ll give a third for Sabre. There are many solo drills you can work through to help get the cuts and guards down. You can even set up a pell in the position of some guards to practice feint-disengages.

Rapier I would not recommend unless you get a training partner. Sure you can learn to stick your arm out and lunge quite easily but Rapier is all about the interaction of the two blades and without the other person you won’t get much of what is going on. Try learning feeling the bind on a longsword without a training partner.

[Carletto]

There is enough stuff avaliable to help you interpret spada da lato, so coose what you like the best.
If you are on a budget, you can make very cheap training sabres yourself with wood, or you can make - buy sticks and fit them into knights shop basket hilts.

[Phil C]

XVIIth century Pique, Flags, Partisan and french sticks.
A good amount of sources by Paschen, that have not been studied. Almost exclusively solo work. Simulators are cheap and easy to DIY

Your starter for ten-
two-ended staff (very like spadone only with a long stick)
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/70521818/Halfpike.pdf

partisan(very like spadone only with a long shovel)
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/70521818/Partisanb.pdf

[Gil-Galadh]

Wow, seems like it's overwhelmingly saber...I've never worked with pike or partisan and think I'll keep them as a second option -they do seem interesting, though.
But saber seems like the choice for now. I think I like the "easy to learn - complex later on" stuff.
As far as Bulgarian manuals go - there might be something in the local library. I think here things were based either on Austrian or Russian systems, but we'll see if something turns out. In either case I'll be digging myself in the 19-th century treatises section here...

Thank you all for your help and input!

[admin]

I wasn't recommended sabre actually, sorry if it came across like that .

I think you should do whatever you want to, but for solo training the Bolognese material has A LOT going for it (lots of solo drills right there), where I personally think sabre is better for people with a training partner.

It would be really awesome if you can find any Bulgarian sabre or bayonet manuals though!
I have a Bulgarian student by the way and he's very good with sabre.

[Phil C]

Dubois and Laing's walking stick defence methods include aspects of sabre and encourage solo training, even including details of how to set up practice targets- nowt cheaper than a stick...

[Gil-Galadh]

It would be really awesome if you can find any Bulgarian sabre or bayonet manuals though!
I have a Bulgarian student by the way and he's very good with sabre.

I have found the names of three so far - one of which is for cavalry, but haven't yet visited the library to see if they have copies - which I doubt.

Any tips if i pick on bolognese where to start from - which book, or author would you reccomend?...I remember some articles online and a leaflet form a seminar, with some basic exercises, and also Ikka Hartikainens videos

What about sabers?

XVIIth century Pique, Flags, Partisan and french sticks.
A good amount of sources by Paschen, that have not been studied. Almost exclusively solo work. Simulators are cheap and easy to DIY

Would You care to provide some more info, on the system as a whole, and on the simulators...

p.s. Now that I think of it, the problem seems to be that I want everything...

[Motley]

Bolognese sword alone - dall'Agocchie (free online trans)

Sword and Buckler - Manciliono (published book)

Links can be found here http://www.nova-assalto.com/?page_id=50

Good modern websites, by digging around and looking through the articles on these sites you can get a while bunch of insight into it:

http://www.nova-assalto.com
http://www.salvatorfabris.org/SectionBolognese.shtml
http://www.marozzo.com/

[Bulot]

Would You care to provide some more info, on the system as a whole, and on the simulators...

p.s. Now that I think of it, the problem seems to be that I want everything...

Phil linked you to translated material. There's plenty more if you speak german (have a look in the XVIIth century treatises section of this forum).

Your starter for ten-
two-ended staff (very like spadone only with a long stick)
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/70521818/Halfpike.pdf

partisan(very like spadone only with a long shovel)
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/70521818/Partisanb.pdf

About the system : I have not studied thoroughly (nobody has), but it describes a serie of lessons and exercises, with a huge emphasis on solo work for wielding flags, pikes, partisans and jägerstocks both for parade and defense.
About the simulators, sticks are cheap and easy to find. and if flag is your thing, then there's a little more work to do, but it is still pretty easy to make one.

[Gil-Galadh]

Thanks!
Are flags really flags, or is my English lacking something? I never knew one could use flags for defense...

[Bulot]

nah, the flag thing is'nt a defense weapon, it's mostly a show-off.

[John H]

It really depends what you put on the end of that flag stick.




Granted your job was not really to fight but to make sure everyone knew where your group was.

[Thearos]

Sabre: note that Roworth / Taylor (1804) but also the Manuel de Gymnastique (1875) say that the theory part (how to cut, parry and lunge) can be done alone, but that the point of the method is to practice with an opponent.

[tabiris]

How about the shortstaff - mostl just staff manipulation? It's great for coordination, and the cheapest of weapons.