1821 and 1854 sabre?

[B.Hutchison]

I may have the opportunity to acquire one or both of these and just wanted to quickly post some images here where I can hopefully get some advice from those more knowledgeable than myself on the subject, before I potentially get burned doing so since this is not my area of expertise.

Supposedly these are:

1821 pattern royal artillery sword

Has 'proof mark', royal artillery badge and possibly made in london.. oddly stamped with I think moss bros london address as supplier








1854 pattern rmli sword

Again has proof mark and RMLI etch and possibly VR cypher above rose and thistle? Also bears Rob.Mole & Sons Makers Birmingham legend







The asking price I have been quoted is between £200-300 and just over £400 respectively.

Any thoughts/input welcome.

Thanks in advance.

[admin]

Personally I would say that the 1821 appears like a fair price, assuming it it George V or earlier (by the look of it, it is 1890's to WW1ish).

The 1854, IMO, is too expensive for what it is and the grip looks like it is coming away from the tang at the pommel end.

[B.Hutchison]

Thank you for the quick reply, I have to say now that you mention it I agree with you on the hilt (good eye you have there) and additional pricing information is always a plus.
I'll look into it and see, I believe the timescale you have suggested is about right for the 1821. I'll look into it, thanks again.

[admin]

No problem, I love to look at pics of and talk about antique swords

It may just be the photo, but also the blade looks very smooth and dark on the 1854, giving the impression that it might be quite heavily oxidised - that's not a bad thing in itself, but you would want a blade in much better condition with crisp etching for anything like £400. You can find fairly nice 1854 examples for nearer £250-£300. If you haven't already, have a look through the Michael D Long website - his prices are on the expensive side generally, but there are lots of examples to look at there.

[B.Hutchison]

Well in that case additional images attached

[admin]

The 1854 looks much better in those extra photos you've posted. It's a nice sword, but I wouldn't pay that much for it, and I'd want to know how solid the grip is - I had an 1821 light cavalry sabre that looked like that (big gap between the grip and the backstrap) and the grip moved quite a bit. Likely it is only the grip wire holding it on, unfortunately. I'd say the 1854 is worth more like £250 from a shop (less in auction).

I think the 1821 artillery sword would be a good buy if it is pre-1919 and as close to £200 as possible.

[B.Hutchison]

I shall endeavour to find out more, but I think the original ballpark for the 1821 was somewhere between 1910-1936

[admin]

In which case it must have a George V cypher, as that's his reign.
It's still worth the same money if it's 20's or 30's, but I just think it's nicer to have swords from WW1 or before, and I think they sell quicker (if you ever decide to sell it).
Moss Bros were selling swords made by Mole of Birmingham between 1899 and 1920, and this one does have the look of a Mole sword, in my opinion. Mole and Wilkinson were the biggest sword manufacturers in the UK at that time.

[B.Hutchison]

Indeed I walked into that, I am told it has the cypher but didn't mention it as I don't have/haven't seen the picture to provide evidence of it.

Thank you for clarifying the link between Mole and Moss Bros, as that was something I was having difficulty verifying myself and indeed matches the information I have again been told about this sword.

I am waiting to hear back from the seller regarding both of these swords as it is, and will update you when/assuming I do.

My thanks.