Medieval references to coats of plates

[admin]

'Folios xxi - xxx: Nov 1338', Calendar of letter-books of the city of London: F: 1337-1352 (1904), pp. 30-43.

Assessio War dar' pro dictis navib' mum end' et h'oib' armand' etc.

Assessments of the Wards for equipping the above ships made by John Hamond, William de Brikelesworth, Simon Fraunceys, and Ralph de Uptone, Aldermen, Henry de Prestone, William de Ware, Henry Wymond, William Box, John de Aynesham, Adam Lucas, Robert de Shordiche, Bartholomew Deumars, Commoners, appointed for the purpose by Henry Darci, the Mayor, the Aldermen, and Commonalty, viz., for providing 160 men armed with haketon, plates, bacinets with visors (aventaill'), and gauntlets of plate, and 60 men armed with haketons and bacinets, and 20 grooms (garcionibus) and their wages, viz., 3 pence a day for two months for each man, to sail in the said ships under Sir William Trussel, Admiral of the Fleet of the Cinque Ports, and others, viz., from the mouth of the Thames, &c., viz :-.

Note the contemporary spelling of aketon - haketon. This was the gambeson-like garment worn under armour in the 14thC.
This reference is also very interesting because it makes a distinction between types of arms for types of troops.
One type has an aketon, a coat of plates, bascinets with aventails (not visors, as wrongly translated) and plate gauntlets.
The other type has simply an aketon and a bascinet (presumably without aventail).
Interesting stuff!

[Paul]

Interesting indeed!

While we commonly distinguish between aketons, gambesons and padded jacks in order of thickness, apparently a garment called "haketon" was used as standalone cloth armour similar to a padded jack.

Also, the better armoured men were aparently in the majority.

Btw, I take it the wage of 3p / day was only for the garcionibus?

[admin]

'Subsidy Roll 1319: Broad Street ward', Two Early London Subsidy Rolls (1951), pp. 222-27. From footnotes:

Thomas Brangwayn 1314 Mem 109 (a pair of plates of his taken as pledge for tallage), Th. Brangueyn 1321-2 Cor 47 (valuer BroadSt), Th. Brangwayn 1328 Will (of St. Martin). Apparently an armourer. Cf. Robert Brangwayn 1299-1300 Mayors 63 (of Castle), William B. 1332 S [Cornh], 1348 Cl (skinner). - Surname obscure. Possibly Bryngwyn Monm (Brangwayn Lib Land 320).

'Roll A 1a: April 1323 - Aug 1326', Calendar of the plea and memoranda rolls of the city of London: volume 1: 1323-1364 (1926), pp. 1-10. Footnote:

Late in 1324 Edw. II determined on an expedition to defend Gascony against the French. London was required to send 300 foot-soldiers, armed with haketon, habergeon or plates, bascinet and gauntlets of iron or whalebone, to Portsmouth on Sunday in Midlent 1325. Palgrave's Parliamentary Writs and Writs of Military Summons, vol. ii, pt. ii, p. 688. Subsequently the number was reduced to 140, and they were ordered to report to John Sturmy at Harwich on Sunday after Midlent for the voyage to Gascony. Ibid. p. 698. The expedition, consisting of 100 ships, set sail from Portsmouth on 3 May. French Chronicle, p. 48.

Interesting that it was a haubergeon OR a pair/coat of plates.

[admin]

While we commonly distinguish between aketons, gambesons and padded jacks in order of thickness, apparently a garment called "haketon" was used as standalone cloth armour similar to a padded jack.

I suspect that in the 14thC aketoun/haketon/aketon was just the common name for any military jacket, whether it was worn as armour or underneath armour.

[admin]

'Folios xxxi - xl: Aug 1376 -', Calendar of letter-books of the city of London: H: 1375-1399 (1907), pp. 24-32.

Billa de vigil' faciend'.

Friday the 30th May, 50 Edward III. [A. D. 1376], precept sent to each Alderman to see that a guard, properly armed, is kept by night for the preservation of the peace.

Br'e ad lib' and' s'vienti Comit' March in Scocia certa hernes'.

Writ to the Mayor to give up certain harness made by John Wardelawe of Scotland for the Earl of March of Scotland (fn. 18) which had been seized, viz., five "bacynettes," four pairs of "plates," five "brestplates," six pairs of "braciers," six garnishments (garnesturas) for lances, eight pairs of gloves of iron, two shields, and six bastard saddles (fn. 19) (sellas bastardes).

It's very important to note here the differentiation between 'pairs of plates' and 'breastplates'. In 1376 globular breastplates were quite a new addition to the wealthy man-at-arms' arsenal, and obviously the older coats of plates were still in widespread use as well, as they were almost without a doubt cheaper (and already numerous due to being the standard form of torso defence since at least the end of the 13thC).

[J Marwood]

So a pair of plates would be one plate covering the chest and another the back?

[admin]

The expression 'pair of plates' (copied from the French expression) seems to be older than the wearing of one-piece breastplates, and certainly older than backplates. Therefore it's my hypothesis that it refers to the two (or sometimes three) plates that often covered the chest. Sometimes these were arranged vertically and sometimes horizontally. The examples found in Wisby are mostly vertical on the breast, while the examples from Kussnach are horizontal.

[admin]

'Folios lx - lxix', Calendar of letter-books of the city of London: C: 1291-1309 (1901), pp. 96-114.

Friday before Palm Sunday [15 April], 30 Edward I. [A.D. 1302]-in the presence of Sirs Elyas Russel, William de Bettoyne, and Salamon le Coteler-Nicholas Pycot, the Chamberlain, delivered to William de Sko, of Gascony, a pair of plates which had been delivered by Stephen le Potter to John de Dunstaple, then Chamberlain, for delivery to the said William, &c.

[admin]

'Calendar: Roll C: 17 February 1299 - 14 October 1300', Calendar of early mayor's court rolls: 1298-1307 (1924), pp. 46-91.

19 March 1299-1300
Saturday the morrow of the above Feast
Recognizance (gongnovit se teneri (fn. 1) ) by Ralph de Honilane, alderman, to John de Petresdon of a debt of 40s payable on the morrow.

Katherine de Lincoln was summoned to answer William de Mount Seins in a plea that she return to him an iron horsecuirass, and a pair of plates covered with cloth of gold and samite

[admin]

'Roll A 29: 1388-89', Calendar of the plea and memoranda rolls of the city of London: volume 3: 1381-1412 (1932), pp. 148-69.

2 Oct. 1389

In an action for debt at the suit of John Frankeleyn, draper, against Edmund Peyton, mercer, for the sum of £90 due on a bond, the defendant made four defaults and fled to the liberty of St Martin le Grand, whereupon the goods whereby he had been distrained were valued as a foreign attachment by oath of Thomas Prudaunce and Simon Casteleyn, mercers, Thomas Bacheler and John Hunte, drapers, John Wilyngham and Thomas Kirton, vintners, and John Lorymer and John Osby, as follows:

[cut to leave only those items of interest here].....

... one stuffed jakke, 3s 4d; ...
... 2 bows, 6d; one polhax, 8d; one sword, 4d;
... one breastplate, 2s;

Interesting to see the values.
This is particularly important though because of the early reference to a jack.

[Jeff Gentry]

Hey Matt

Were do you find all these little tidbit's some where right there in london?

Very interesting stuff.


Jeff

[admin]

http://www.british-history.ac.uk

[Jeff Gentry]

Thank's Matt had no idea this site existed.


Jeff

[Paul]

'Roll A 29: 1388-89', Calendar of the plea and memoranda rolls of the city of London: volume 3: 1381-1412 (1932), pp. 148-69.

2 Oct. 1389

In an action for debt at the suit of John Frankeleyn, draper, against Edmund Peyton, mercer, for the sum of £90 due on a bond, the defendant made four defaults and fled to the liberty of St Martin le Grand, whereupon the goods whereby he had been distrained were valued as a foreign attachment by oath of Thomas Prudaunce and Simon Casteleyn, mercers, Thomas Bacheler and John Hunte, drapers, John Wilyngham and Thomas Kirton, vintners, and John Lorymer and John Osby, as follows:

[cut to leave only those items of interest here].....

... one stuffed jakke, 3s 4d; ...
... 2 bows, 6d; one polhax, 8d; one sword, 4d;
... one breastplate, 2s;

Interesting to see the values.
This is particularly important though because of the early reference to a jack.

Amazing to see the value of that jack!

How come a jack would be more expensive than a breastplate?

That sword is pretty cheap though...

According to this site:
http://eh.net/hmit/ppowerbp/
These are the prices in 2005 money.

one stuffed jakke, 3s 4d; ... = £85.03
2 bows, 6d; = £12.75
one polhax, 8d; = £17.01
one sword, 4d; = £8.50
one breastplate, 2s; = £51.02

It seems that the jack would be the only reasonable investment.
Obviously, this is just for general interest.

[admin]

I hate those kind of currency conversions - they are really meaningless.

As a better comparison, we know that an archer was paid 3d or 6d per day of active service at this time, depending on whether he had a horse or not.
4d was about a day's pay for a trained craftsman.

So you could get an old cheap sword for a day's pay. Quite similar to today .

[SCA Archer]

I hate those kind of currency conversions - they are really meaningless.

As a better comparison, we know that an archer was paid 3d or 6d per day of active service at this time, depending on whether he had a horse or not.
4d was about a day's pay for a trained craftsman.

So you could get an old cheap sword for a day's pay. Quite similar to today .

The joy of E-bay huh? Old cheap swords... grumble grumble...

Although I could go for a scale of a trained craftsman though...

[Paul]

I hate those kind of currency conversions - they are really meaningless.

As a better comparison, we know that an archer was paid 3d or 6d per day of active service at this time, depending on whether he had a horse or not.
4d was about a day's pay for a trained craftsman.

So you could get an old cheap sword for a day's pay. Quite similar to today .

I think I agree, although it should be possible to make a currency conversion based on purchasing power that does make sense.

Nevertheless, I still think the jack is very expensive for such a simple garment, which can be made at home, using old rags as filling.

[admin]

It just depends on the quality and condition of the things. In some of those records you can see an old sword for 4d and a new sword for 2s.. It just depends - the breastplate might have been old and rusty in this case, or the jack might have been a good specimin.
Henry V gave out some jewelled swords with Spanish blades as diplomatic gifts, valued at £2000 each! That was a HUGE amount of money for a sword then.

[Dan Howard]

The expression 'pair of plates' (copied from the French expression) seems to be older than the wearing of one-piece breastplates, and certainly older than backplates. Therefore it's my hypothesis that it refers to the two (or sometimes three) plates that often covered the chest. Sometimes these were arranged vertically and sometimes horizontally. The examples found in Wisby are mostly vertical on the breast, while the examples from Kussnach are horizontal.

Apologies for the thread resurrection. Do you have the exact phrase that the French used to describe the 'pair of plates"?

[admin]

Sorry Dan, I don't know. Doesn't Claude Blair's book give a couple of examples? (I don't have it to hand right now)