Adam R wrote:Hi Jeff - yes yes yes
Especially the glancing down the blade thing
The 'squinter' nonsense has led to some odd interpretation imho
Meisterhau has won widespread use thanks to Mr Toblers book I suspect
I notice your version of the strikes is similar to mine- overarching principles, not technical details.
As far as the name "Meisterhau" goes, I follow Meyer:
"The strikes with the Sword are many, belonging to two groups, which are common to both the direct and indirect strikes which we shall name. The first group is named the Lead or Principal strikes, on which all other strikes are based, and which are four, Over, Under, Middle, and Wrathful strikes. The others are named the secondary or derivative strikes, which are twelve in number, namely the Glance, Curve, Short, Slide, Bounce: Single and Double, Blind, Wound, Crown, Knuckle, Plunge, and Change Strike. Beyond these strikes come the proper Master Strikes, which we shall also name, from which all masterful and artful moves with the Sword are made and accomplished with varying grips, these are Wrath, Bent, Traverser, Glancer and Vertex which are all used when wanting to conclude and complete, and which I will describe to you. Just as I introduced pre-fencing, so I have clearly spoken and introduced the Strikes to you."
But then again, I am enamoured of the later masters: Mair and Meyer....
MugginsToadwort wrote:Yes, I use Mike Rasmussen's with a lot of rewriting and some translation changes.
And yes, having the Forgeng translation on order is leaving me very impatient. I took on the messer/dussack syllabus a few years ago, and that is the section I really want!
T.L. Johnson wrote:Vor and Nach in one sentence each.
Vor: If you focus on what you want to do, it will happen.
Nach: If your focus is on what the other guy is doing, it will happen.
Andreas Engström wrote:Nach isn't something negative. Everybody ends up in Nach at times. If you are in Nach and don't realize it, and instead act as though you had Vor, you will most likely die. If your opponent was sloppy and didn't cover well you may well harm him grieveously in the process, but that's really no consolation when you're dead.
Many beginners try to be in Vor all the time, and when two such people spar it quickly becomes double hit bonanza. That's the time to break them up and explain the above.
swordflasher wrote:On vor and nach. As a newbie I thought it was like - someone is about to punch you, you can step in and attack them as they start to go to hit you, or you can step to the side and do some damage after they miss
Or do something clever just as they are striking, obviously.
Was I miles out?
Paul B wrote: Vor = before your opponent does somthing
Indes = during your opponent doing somthing
Nach = after your opponent does somthing
admin wrote:Hi - as a Fioreist of course I have a passing interest in Liechtenauer, as a contemporary system. I've seen a lot of different teachers presenting classes on Liechtenauer (or other masters in his lineage), and I am curious to see if we can put together a one-sentence explanation for each of the meisterhau below?
I think it would really be a useful thing for students of other fencing systems to have: a brief list of the meisterhau and basically what each one does and why. As concise as possible.
Colin Richards wrote:All the hidden strikes are primarily used as defensive moves, counter strikes and therefore used in the Nach.
Wenn dw mit dem zu° vechten zu ym kumst | haut er dir denn von seiner rechtñ seitten oben ein zu° dem kopff | So haw auch von dein° rechten seitten von oben an alle vor satzung | Mit im zornigklich ein auf sein swert
However, these passages are the exception, not the rule.Merck wenn du mit dem zü fechten zw° ÿm kumpst | Stet er denn gegen dir | vnd helt dir den langen ort gegen dem gesicht oder der prust | So halt dein swert an der rechten achsel | vnd schil mit dem gesicht zu° dem ort | vnd thu°e als dw ÿm dar zu° hauen wöllest | vnd haw starck mit dem schilär mit der kurtzen schneid an sein swert | vñ scheus ÿm den ort do mit lanck ein ze dem hals mit einem zw° tritt des rechten füess ~
Well, at least I do.Colin Richards wrote:Many people seem to see a sheitelhau as a break to the alber position, though surely it will only work if the opponents sword is travelling down at the time of the start of you attack. (as people are stating I think)
It says explicitly that I strike the Scheitelhau as soon as he moves his sword into Alber.44 A 8 on 25r wrote:Wenn dw mit dem zu° vechten zw° ÿm kumpst legt er sich denn gegen dir in die hu°t alber | So setz den lincken fuess vor vnd halt dein swert an deiner rechten achsel Inn der hu°t | vnd spring zw° Im | vnd haw mit der langen schneid starck von oben nider Im zu° dem kopff
Colin Richards wrote:What are the main methods of countering hidden strikes?
Colin Richards wrote:All hidden strikes are coming from above? Would the natural answer to these strikes be strikes from below or the side (rising)?
Colin Richards wrote:Many people seem to see a sheitelhau as a break to the alber position, though surely it will only work if the opponents sword is travelling down at the time of the start of you attack. (as people are stating I think)
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