Opinion on Ochs Video - ARMA thread

[David Rawlings]

we don't use the windscreen wiper as the version to break ochs, preferring to throw the point over the hilt at the opponent(this is a true edge version), this means that it will meet hand flat or person.
I don't like the windscreen unless striking against a blow from our right, as in this situation(ie when the point will pass you) the displacement it creates is safe.

I don't think there is just one krump.
But breaking ochs, cor how enlightening, all this time we where using a non martially sound one that doesn't break ochs or anything and gets us hit all the time, how will we cope till the new one comes out....

No, Really, I think, with possibly a few exceptions people can do that now guys.

By the way we have a simple and codified system of breaking the guards, I can't tell you cos we've told too many people already.
Oh hell, maybe I'll put it up on the fightmedieval site, I have to take some pics anyway.

[Anders Linnard]

Well, ok. We do the krumps as an arch. Cutting forward. You can hit the hands, you can hit the sword, you can cross the sword and stab on the other side. It's going to be interesting to see which interpretation you have adopted. But It's kind of silly to think there's a new way to do the krump. I'd be really surprised if you have a revolutionary new way of doing it that noone has done before. Krump is probably the one cut that has been tried and tested the most. So unless you have added a back flip and a dropkick I'm not really holding my breath.

/Anders

[admin]

Shit.. I thought nobody else had thought of the backflip.

[Axel]

I would think that, given that ARMA draws from many different german sources, there could also be many versions of the krumphau in the curriculum?

[Randall Pleasant]

But It's kind of silly to think there's a new way to do the krump. I'd be really surprised if you have a revolutionary new way of doing it that noone has done before. Krump is probably the one cut that has been tried and tested the most. So unless you have added a back flip and a dropkick I'm not really holding my breath.

Anders

Why is it silly? Who has gone back in time and trained under the masters so that they know beyound all doubt what is and is not a proper Krump? Are we not dealing with interpretations? Unlike what some may think, everything we know about these lost arts is open to questioning. On the other hand, I do understand your skepticism. JC met the same skepticism within ARMA when he first came out with his new interpretation. The one fact I know about JC is that he is not a bullshitter, he won't say he knows something unless he can back it up with documents and a sword in his hand. JC's new Krump interpretation is fairly revolutionary - but I'm sure there will be those who will claim that they have been doing it all along.

By the way, please note that this thread was started by referencing what I said on the ARMA forum, I didn't come here and ask that you or anyone else hold your breath. Everyone is free to except any interpretations they wish. In fact, we love it when people try to break our Ochs using the older interpretations of Krump.

[bigdummy]

ARMA has a new directorially prescribed a

Jeffrey, do you realize how you guys sound sometimes?

I'm assuming that you are referring to Jeffrey only.
I'm from Louisiana, my vocabulary be smaller.

Randal being of good Louisiana stock I'm sure you are a scholar and a gentleman. Without a doubt you are far more concise and elegant in your prose than I could ever hope to be. FWIW I respect a lot of what "you guys" do. I think most people here feel that way.

Yet as James said, the tone and language ("Directorially presecribed"?) of some of the pronouncements I see from your colleagues in "neutral" territory like here or MyArmoury are downright surreal, as is their seeming uniformity.

BD

[Axel]

FWIW I respect a lot of what "you guys" do. I think most people here feel that way.

Yet as James said, the tone and language ("Directorially presecribed"?) of some of the pronouncements I see from your colleagues in "neutral" territory like here or MyArmoury are downright surreal, as is their seeming uniformity.

BD

Ditto BD, atleast the first part. If one arma member says one thing Im not going to ask the other one for an excuse for it (having been in arma myself), and the other way around I am not going to be offended just because Anders is an arse .

Randall, is the reason this new interpretation is not shared publicly in a way like for example Dave proposed to do with his interpretation in this thread due to the fact that it is not yet fully complete, or something else?

[Anders Linnard]

There seem to be some kind of confusion here. I am sure that JC's interpretation is perfectly valid (well, hard to say without having seen it). I am sure he can back it up with manuals and with a sword in his hand. What I was patronising about was the "brand new interpretation of the krump" bit. I would be seriously amazed if he interprets the krump in a way I haven't seen before. Unless of course he does the back flip and stuff. And your comment about people claiming they have "been doing it all along" sort of puts a smile on my face. Of course they have. That is true for almost anything. To honestly think that any of us are doing something unique that no one has tried is, well... silly.

/Anders - obviously an arse, but at least not a presumptuous one

But It's kind of silly to think there's a new way to do the krump. I'd be really surprised if you have a revolutionary new way of doing it that noone has done before. Krump is probably the one cut that has been tried and tested the most. So unless you have added a back flip and a dropkick I'm not really holding my breath.

Anders

Why is it silly? Who has gone back in time and trained under the masters so that they know beyound all doubt what is and is not a proper Krump? Are we not dealing with interpretations? Unlike what some may think, everything we know about these lost arts is open to questioning. On the other hand, I do understand your skepticism. JC met the same skepticism within ARMA when he first came out with his new interpretation. The one fact I know about JC is that he is not a bullshitter, he won't say he knows something unless he can back it up with documents and a sword in his hand. JC's new Krump interpretation is fairly revolutionary - but I'm sure there will be those who will claim that they have been doing it all along.

By the way, please note that this thread was started by referencing what I said on the ARMA forum, I didn't come here and ask that you or anyone else hold your breath. Everyone is free to except any interpretations they wish. In fact, we love it when people try to break our Ochs using the older interpretations of Krump.

[Randall Pleasant]

What I was patronising about was the "brand new interpretation of the krump" bit. I would be seriously amazed if he interprets the krump in a way I haven't seen before.

I am very sure that you have not...but I don't see this as something to argue about.

And your comment about people claiming they have "been doing it all along" sort of puts a smile on my face. Of course they have. That is true for almost anything. To honestly think that any of us are doing something unique that no one has tried is, well... silly.

It is unique and nobody has been doing it. I was making a joke because no matter how unique it is there will be some that will claim they have been doing it all along.

[Fab]

It is unique and nobody has been doing it. I was making a joke because no matter how unique it is there will be some that will claim they have been doing it all along.

I'm glad to see you've been able to see what everybody out there - every single one, each and every one - has been doing....


I'm still dubious. Or maybe waiting to be convinced.

Is there any idea of when this brand new revelation will be released to the ignorant masses out there ? Or shall general enlightement be, once again, postponed or denied to the unworthy ?

[bigdummy]

ARMA can see out from behind the iron curtain, but no-one can see in....

[Anders Linnard]

It is unique and nobody has been doing it. I was making a joke because no matter how unique it is there will be some that will claim they have been doing it all along.

I am fairly certain you need to keep it a secret to be able to stay inside that imaginary bubble.

/Anders - pretty sure I invented the wheel at some point

[Stevie T]

/Anders - pretty sure I invented the wheel at some point

Nah, I did that years ago, and mine was rounder!

[bigdummy]

The wheel you can draw a circle around is not the real wheel

[bigdummy]

Anyway at some point it will be interesting to see if the secretive closed / off groups develop a more effective and / or more historically accurate HEMA interpretation on their own than the other more mutually cooperative and open HEMA groups more willing and / or able to work together.

How we might actually ever find out is another abstract concept I can not easily resolve in my mind.

I also wonder which segment of the HEMA community is growing faster right now. There seems to be fairly rapid growth in both skill and size in many parts of Europe particularly.

Meanwhile we'll still be down here in Louisiana eternally too European for the Americans, to American for the Europeans, flailing away at each other with our inferior equipment. Until the next flood washes us all away at least...

BD aka the Rodney Dangerfield of HEMA

[Randall Pleasant]

Fab

What is with all of this negativity? I didn't come there telling you about this. Remember, this discussion started with someone else quoting the thread on the ARMA forum.

I'm glad to see you've been able to see what everybody out there - every single one, each and every one - has been doing.

We make a point of trying to know what others are doing. If we see something that looks good then we test it and if it works then we incorporate it. Is this not how it happens in other fields? Are you closed to learning something new? We know what others are doing and not doing by their publications, their demonstrations, their classes and the videos that they upload onto the Internet.

I'm still dubious. Or maybe waiting to be convinced.

We should expect nothing less. However, I do hope that you will at least see it and try it before you dismiss it.

Is there any idea of when this brand new revelation will be released to the ignorant masses out there? Or shall general enlightement be, once again, postponed or denied to the unworthy ?

I have no idea when JC will publish his material.

Unworthy? What is that about? Do you feel this way about every researcher who doesn't publish according to your personal timeframe?

Why do you think that a new interpretation means everyone else is ignorant? Will you be thinking this of Matt if he comes out with a new interpretation of Posta de Donna or one of the other Fiore techniques? Do you think this when Tober comes out a new interpretation?

[admin]

Let's tone down the sniping, guys - Randall is just trying to convey something as much as he can, and whether you agree that JC might have been able to invent something that nobody else is doing or not, there is no reason to try and escalate the conversation into a pissing contest or argument.

[bigdummy]

It's not the idea of a new interpretation, it's the tone and the implications of a lot of the language used here, the idea that you have a secret nobody else could possibly have thought of is a bit odd. I've never seen anyone who posts here discuss a new interpretation in this way. Randal I think you can see this if you take your 'official' hat off and just read this thread objectively.

The people here are not "Maestros" with some kind of automatic hostility toward your group, nobody here is interested in rivalries.

Perhaps it would help to differentiate somewhat more in terms of where you post.

anyway Matt is right I apologize for being snarky.

[Fab]

Fab

What is with all of this negativity? I didn't come there telling you about this. Remember, this discussion started with someone else quoting the thread on the ARMA forum.

Don't confuse negativity and irony. Or if the latter was not visible in my post, then blame it on me being foreign.

We make a point of trying to know what others are doing. If we see something that looks good then we test it and if it works then we incorporate it. Is this not how it happens in other fields? Are you closed to learning something new? We know what others are doing and not doing by their publications, their demonstrations, their classes and the videos that they upload onto the Internet.

And can all this be generalized to al the people not publishing (or not having published yet), not uploading vids and not teaching classes to you ? A matter of semantics, I agree

We should expect nothing less. However, I do hope that you will at least see it and try it before you dismiss it.

You seem to imply I'd be too eager to dismiss it - or am I reading you wrong ?

Unworthy? What is that about? Do you feel this way about every researcher who doesn't publish according to your personal timeframe?

Why do you think that a new interpretation means everyone else is ignorant? Will you be thinking this of Matt if he comes out with a new interpretation of Posta de Donna or one of the other Fiore techniques? Do you think this when Tober comes out a new interpretation?

And then again, I think you misread me.

I don't have a timeframe, nor an agenda. I just have too much work, and too little time to bother about secrecy, "leadership in interpretation" or whatever. Or about being touchy.


Matt : apologies for trying to be too witty or humourous in a language that isn't mine.

[Stevie T]

We make a point of trying to know what others are doing. If we see something that looks good then we test it and if it works then we incorporate it. Is this not how it happens in other fields? Are you closed to learning something new? We know what others are doing and not doing by their publications, their demonstrations, their classes and the videos that they upload onto the Internet.

Shit man!

You got satalites whatching my back garden?

F**king big brother ARMA now, eh!



Look, I haven't been doing this that long, I work by myself posting stuff up here for a bit of criticism.

But, I still have my own interpretations, not all mentioned here, not all videod and put on youtube.

This is mainly due to lack of cinfidence but I Krump differently to Tobler, I'm sure others do, and I also krump differently depending on the situation, as I'm sure others do.

To claim that what JC is doing is totaly different from what everyone else is doing is very arrogant.

To say that you then can't discuss this because JC might one day decide to publish is pompus. If you can't discuss it then it should never have been mentioned.

And personally I don't think discussing JC revolutionary idea is really going to effect the sales of his book.

How many people here do you think are going to rush out and buy it?

Perhaps someone with the spare income and a desire to own every modern text on HEMA might, then give us a quick run down on JC's version.


Perhaps you would like to look at your own tone before you start criticing others.