Popinjay ... the sport

[bigdummy]

Ran across a puzzling reference to this in a very old history book and found this wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popinjay_%28sport%29

This was apparently done by the Cossacks and the Tartars with composite bows, and by the Poles and Czechs with crossbows, and in the British Isles with longbows... and later everywhere with guns. There are some good period artwork of this, though I can't get my hands on the specific one I'm looking for right now.

Can anyone here elaborate? Maybe we should revive it if it hasn't been already.

BD

[Jonathan Waller]

They used to shoot it quite a bit in the 60's from what Dad says, I know some people who go and shoot it in France and Belgium now... in fact they went a few weeks ago... one version you shoot, one arrow then go have a drink, then another arrow and... another drink.... it dates back to the Late Middle ages as far as I know.....
Do a google image search "popinjay shooting" and you will get some reasonable images.

I have an image of it being shot with Longbows somewhere i'll look for. They also shot it with crossbows
Best

[Ariella Elema]

Here's a picture from Krakow, circa 1505. (The site doesn't allow copy and paste.)

More information on the source. Hat tip to BD, who told me about it.

[bigdummy]

Yes Ariella, who is a genius, found the one i was looking for. There is another cool one of Cossacks doing it from horseback which I'll post here later...

and a really interesting passage from Jan Dlugosz which I will also transcribe and post.

Thanks, this fascinates me. I want to try this one day too!

BD

[bigdummy]

This is the crossbowmankers shop, unfortunately black and white



This is the other image I was looking for, I think it's cossacks shooting the popinjay



These are Ottomans doing the same thing


source: Sultan Murad II at Archery Practice
Huner-nama ('Book of Skills'). Istanbul, 1584. Hazine 1523

BD

[Phil C]

It's corrupted to 'poppingo' in Scotland, where most of the traditional longbow clubs I know of still do it once in a while as a novelty shoot, either at a flagpole or a castle keep.

[bigdummy]

This, as promised, is the passage from Jan Dlugosz, part of his entry for the eventful year of 1455:

"Two disasters now strike the city of Cracow. On the day the new bishop, Thomas Strzepinski is elected, a fine bell with a very pleasant ring, a gift of the late Cardinal-bishop Olesnicki, is dislodged and falls and breaks the upper part of one ear, thus making it useless, until it can be recast. Then, on the following day, fire breaks out in the house of Thomas the Armourer, which is close to the church. The attempts to put it out are only half-hearted, for almost all the apprentices are outside the city shooting at a popinjay or watching others do it; then the wind goes round to the north and the flames break out again, and the fire spreads rapidly. Some of the houses affected have gunpowder stored in them and this only increases the blaze. People are more concerned to rescue the contents of their houses than to put out the fire, which, in the end, consumes over a hundred houses and four churches, as well as the college of the students of canon law, only two of the canon's houses being saved, one that of the cantor and the other that of Canon Jan Dlugosz [i.e. the author]. The fire spreads as far as the castle, killing many, especially those who take refuge in their cellars. Many attribute the outbreak to the hurt done to God's name, when the Jews, who used to deposit most of their possessions with Thomas the Armourer, were granted their liberty.".

- annals of Jan Dlugosz, page 523

This is interesting for several reasons. All the apprentices are shooting the popinjay, probably in exactly the way depicted in the Balthasar Behem Codex image Ariella linked. And probably as part of some holiday associated with the election of the new Bishop. Why do I think that? Because the Balthasar Behem is specifically a survey of guild laws in Cracow and all the miniatures in it depict the craft guilds in various activities. It is interesting to me that the apprentices are practicing marskmanship. This is reminiscent of what we know of the (archers) guilds of St. Sebastian in Flanders, and correlates with the other links linking the craft guilds to town-defense in Krakow (i.e the craft guilds built and maintained all the principle defensive towers and gates). Except that I'm a bit surprised that apprentices were involved in this sort of thing though I probably shouldn't be.

It's also interesting that people are storing gunpowder in their houses.

Finally, what the hell is Dlugosz talking about in his implied blaming of the Jews for the fire, and what was their relationship with that rascal Thomas the Armourer?

BD

[bigdummy]

It's corrupted to 'poppingo' in Scotland, where most of the traditional longbow clubs I know of still do it once in a while as a novelty shoot, either at a flagpole or a castle keep.

Have you done it? Is it fun? Difficult?


BD

[Phil C]

Have you done it? Is it fun? Difficult?

Yes. Yes. More "different" than difficult- range and wind are difficult to factor since you can't judge either by any frame of reference. Blunt arrows strongly recommended.

http://www.scottisharchery.org.uk/aboutpopinjay.php

[Joolz]

Wikipedia mentions it is very popular in Belgium. When I lived out there, there were masts all over the place, I even got to watch a few matches (although I never took part, much to my regret). It's a bit like 'boules' in France - practically every public recreation ground has the facilities for it and everyone - old, young, families - seemed to be doing it.....but then the Belgians are a little 'different'.

Joolz

[bigdummy]

Still a bit medieval in certain areas, I think. Which is why so few of them outside of Brussles are actually 'Belgian'.

BD

[Ariella Elema]

Apparently it's also a traditional Turkish sport when it's done on horseback with a Turkish bow.

Here's something similar in a fifteenth-century Arabic manuscript.

[bigdummy]

Ha! it looks like a tetherball!

BD

[admin]

I have also done this with longbow and blunt arrows. It is something that is done at a few British archery clubs on special occasions - usually once a year fun days and suchlike.

[leonardo daneluz]

If I remember well "The book of the crossbow" by Payne-Gallwey describes a german version with what seemed a wood target made as an eagle holding different things and all precut in pieces with the prizes written in the back.

[bigdummy]

Cool ! I love that

BD

[Joolz]

More mad Belgian vertical archers - pics of the modern 'masts' you find everywhere over there, also some nice early ones (16thC), and an amazing modern feathered target:

[Joolz]

Feathered Target:

[Jonathan Waller]

Some friends in have just come back from the European Championships that took place last weekend in Northern France, they were shooting longbows, the locals shoot re-curves of various types, some even apparently use compounds. The towers apparently measure 90 feet, they have a mobile one that they are going to bring over to the UK for the Medieval Society's 50 anniversary.

[Alina]

That's awesome stuff. I wish there were more traditional shoots like this in the US.