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Re: Gloves for sparring

PostPosted: 09 Dec 2011 13:09
by snowcelt
admin wrote:
snowcelt wrote:The Ensifer ones look the biz even if they're expensive. I'd consider it a good investment though.


And this is the crux. YOU might find them worth the money, I might find them worth the money, but until they are a price that the majority of our club members are willing to pay they are pretty much irrelevant. I would not be able to convince more than one or two people in my club to pay that much for a pair of gloves, so for all practical purposes they don't exist for us.
Sooner or later (and I hear it is getting sooner) there will be a pair of affordable HEMA gloves available. In my view Ensifer are shooting themselves in the foot by not grabbing the market right now by mass-producing a version of their glove at a reasonable price. They are going to loose all their potential customers to someone else.


Fair point Matt and I agree completely. For the record, I don't have a pair of the Ensifers. For sparring I use steel gauntlets. I've had them for years and never had any problems with them beyond an occasional bruise. (I did pay about 165 euros for them though, which still makes them kind of expensive, I guess). Anyway, I was just thinking along the lines of the cost of what seems to be a good product versus having a broken finger or two. The latter means I cannot work and that just isn't acceptable for me. Hence, this is why i'd consider it an investment. As you say, it's just a matter of time before a more cost-friendly solution becomes available. We'll just have to watch and wait.

Re: Gloves for sparring

PostPosted: 09 Dec 2011 14:04
by Jose_Pereira
Those Mechanix gloves might have more in them than meets the eye. They are 100% covered in EVA foam, which is quite tough, and the rubber outer protection is over that foam. They even have protection for the fingertips and a bunch of safety cetifications. I'd like to see a pair in person. Anyone knows how to get them in Europe?

Re: Gloves for sparring

PostPosted: 09 Dec 2011 15:07
by admin
You can buy them through Amazon - the postage is not much (£5 to the UK).

Re: Gloves for sparring

PostPosted: 09 Dec 2011 17:09
by Andrew Shultz
snowcelt wrote:One thing from Swordfish this year is that lacrosse gloves don't cut it with steel swords. Not sure if the official report is out yet .For regular training they might be ok though. However, they seem to be fine for nylon swords.


The number of broken fingers with lacrosse gloves and nylon tournaments says they don't cut it with nylon swords either.

From personal experience lacrosse goalie gloves - with extra thumb protection are OK for medium sparring and regular training. Without the extra thumb bits you'll sooner or later be quite sorry.

Re: Gloves for sparring

PostPosted: 09 Dec 2011 17:33
by admin
What I don't get is that if people get broken fingers from nylon swords then they must be getting them from lacrosse and hockey sticks as well. Yet lacrosse and hockey glove manufacturers don't seem particularly interested in improving their products (as we saw from Brine's appalling public relations gaff on Facebook).

Re: Gloves for sparring

PostPosted: 09 Dec 2011 18:55
by Jose_Pereira
I'm only practicing HEMA for 2 years, so I'm not nearly as experienced as maybe most people around here, but here goes my opinion on this.

Most of my martial art training is from MMA and eastern martial arts (mostly jiu-jitsu and kyokushin), which I still pratice around 5 times a week. So, lots of fighting and sparring with and without protections. In kyokushin you fight without any protection, except cod and mouth piece. Guys break noses, shins, theeth and many times fingers. Your hands suffer a lot on bare knuckle fighting without proper conditioning and technique. When someone breaks a pinkie he is sent home to heal and then comes back to improve his punching technique.
No one gets pissed, we all expect this to happen sometimes. All the new students are prepared from day one for this, that fighters get hurt sometimes, thats the nature of any agressive action (to some extent) specialy if mixed with bad technique. And if they want to be called fighters they must acept that reality.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not of the opinion that we should start to smash eachothers on HEMA, only that mental conditioning is at least as important as good protections. And that includes learning correct guards and to use the hilt.

This is subjective, but I think that when you get hit you should feel something. That will send a very clear hint to your brain about what you are doing wrong. I work well with this sistem.

This is why I see value on more compact gloves, which relly more on clever rigid protection than on sheer foam volume

Re: Gloves for sparring

PostPosted: 09 Dec 2011 20:27
by Andrew Shultz
admin wrote:What I don't get is that if people get broken fingers from nylon swords then they must be getting them from lacrosse and hockey sticks as well. Yet lacrosse and hockey glove manufacturers don't seem particularly interested in improving their products (as we saw from Brine's appalling public relations gaff on Facebook).


It probably does happen some, although in both cases you aren't actually allowed to raise the stick above your head and slam it down on the hands of your opponent.

Whereas we're encouraged to do that, though we might try not to slam too hard.

Re: Gloves for sparring

PostPosted: 09 Dec 2011 22:36
by Dithyrambus
Jose_Pereira wrote:This is why I see value on more compact gloves, which relly more on clever rigid protection than on sheer foam volume


I am probably the least experienced person involved in this discussion, but I for one agree with you on this (and other things you said in your post), I tried on a few pairs of lax gloves and didn't like any of them, especially considering the cost ($60.00 - $100.00) bulky and very little protection for the fingers. I'll be ordering a pair of the oil rig workers gloves after the holidays and I will share my thoughts, unless someone else beats me to it.

Re: Gloves for sparring

PostPosted: 09 Dec 2011 23:44
by Fab
Lacrosse and hockey gloves are here to provide proteciton for unintentional contact (with the exception of goalie gloves of course). Which can account for their limited effectiveness in our own purposes.

They were - and still are - a "better than nothing" solution. I'm really looking forward to seeing what a tailored response to our needs will look like.

And I too am against the bulky, rigid, mitts, expensive, your choice here.

Re: Gloves for sparring

PostPosted: 10 Dec 2011 02:13
by Jose_Pereira
These are my current fencing gloves:

Image

Image

Image

Image

They are track racing motorcycle gloves, as you can see, but more heavly protected than the more usual ones. The black stuff is carbon fiber (real carbon fiber, not termoplastic with CF pattern like many) padded by neoprene on the knuckles and EVA on the rest. There is also firm padding between the plates (which are bigger than they look, most of them is under the leather) and on most of the back of the hand. There are also big, padded, medium/high density rubber plates on the back of the hand and forearm.

There are some unprotected parts, most noticeably on the first dorsal muscle area and the sides of the wrist. This makes the gloves more of a practical experiment and concept test for me. The protected areas are, however, very effective, even with longswords. This proves to me that the protection concept works, and a glove with the same materials and construction metods but with more coverage would be extremely effective.

PS: sorry for the lousy phone pictures

Re: Gloves for sparring

PostPosted: 11 Dec 2011 21:49
by craftyfighter
Andrew Shultz wrote:
admin wrote:What I don't get is that if people get broken fingers from nylon swords then they must be getting them from lacrosse and hockey sticks as well. Yet lacrosse and hockey glove manufacturers don't seem particularly interested in improving their products (as we saw from Brine's appalling public relations gaff on Facebook).


It probably does happen some, although in both cases you aren't actually allowed to raise the stick above your head and slam it down on the hands of your opponent.

Whereas we're encouraged to do that, though we might try not to slam too hard.


As an ex lacrosse player I can second this...definitely not allowed to target the hands. I did though...and got carded a lot :twisted:

Re: Gloves for sparring

PostPosted: 26 Jun 2012 01:46
by Raphael
This Sunday I met Lutz, from Artes Belli (one of the Parisian HEMA groups), who uses Kali gloves, these ones to be more specific : http://www.blitzsport.com/Kali-Gloves?s ... egory=6625

They appear to be better than most gloves on many points : better protection than some Lacrosse gloves, as there are layers of hard leather everywhere including on the sides of the fingers, more flexible -- allowing a better grip on the sword without hindering the occasional wrestling and grappling --, far less expensive that Lacrosse gloves with the same level of protection... Lutz sees no reason to dislike them, they are comfortable and make for safe sparring.
One slight problem may be that they seem to have very short fingers ; a friend of mine and myself tried them on, and the fingers were a bit too short, but then we have long fingers so the problem may not lie with the gloves themselves (and it's actually not a huge problem either).

Does someone here use these gloves and could confirm what I say (or add drawbacks) ?

Re: Gloves for sparring

PostPosted: 26 Jun 2012 10:01
by KeithFarrell
We use the Blitz kali gloves quite a lot for our students. I shall endeavour to write and post a full review later today.

Re: Gloves for sparring

PostPosted: 26 Jun 2012 10:26
by admin
I actually have one pair of these (well not the same make, but they look the same) in our club kit bag. I would not use them personally, as they lack enough impact protection IMO, but they're okay for light beginner stuff.

Re: Gloves for sparring

PostPosted: 26 Jun 2012 15:20
by KeithFarrell

Re: Gloves for sparring

PostPosted: 15 Jul 2012 10:48
by Chiron
Is there any point waiting for the knightshop gloves because, I'm looking for gloves for the arts of mars event And I've been holding out not wanting to buy new lacrosse gloves. If there is no further news I might look at some of the other gloves that are rumored to be upcoming.

Re: Gloves for sparring

PostPosted: 17 Jul 2012 10:41
by admin
There has been no news on the Knightshop gloves for AGES, so I would look elsewhere if I were you. I'm still considering starting to use my steel gauntlets from my harness for steel sparring, though so far I have been lucky with the Regenyei feders - in fact several of us think that they hit with less force than the nylons and in that regard are actually safer.

Re: Gloves for sparring

PostPosted: 17 Jul 2012 20:56
by Colin F.
admin wrote:in fact several of us think that they hit with less force than the nylons and in that regard are actually safer.


I'd agree with this.

The only addition I have made to my lacrosse gloves for sparring with the feders is to put a few finger tips in the ends for added padding. So far any hits to the hands have been dealt with really well by my gloves and , like yourselves, they seem to have less force behind them than the nylons.

Re: Gloves for sparring

PostPosted: 17 Jul 2012 21:25
by Chiron
Agreed, as far as the Regenyei feders, but my current gloves are pretty shitty and for a tournament with unknown fencers I would've preferred something that at least protected the sides of the fingers, I think I'll get my leather kit out and do some DIY. The Absolute force gloves look like they'll be good, so I think I'll hold out for them. I thought there might at least have been some news at Dijon. Thanks for the replies though!

Re: Gloves for sparring

PostPosted: 18 Jul 2012 09:46
by Mark T
Colin F. wrote:The only addition I have made to my lacrosse gloves for sparring with the feders is to put a few finger tips in the ends for added padding.


Colin - what kind of finger tips are you using? Where did you get them from?

Cheers,

Mark T