Galeazzo de Mantua

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Galeazzo de Mantua

Postby Ariella Elema » 26 Jun 2007 21:17

Here are the relevant sections about Galeazzo of Mantua from Thomas of Saluzzo. I've given them their own thread because they get quite long. I'm excerpting the French text from the following source:

Marvin J. Ward, "A Critical Edition of Thomas III, marquis of Saluzzo's Le Livre du Chevalier Errant" (Ph.D. diss, Chapel Hill, 1984).

CCCIX Comment Galeaz voult aprivoisier un petit renart et ce qu'il en advint. Et aussi parle de deux chevaliers qui estoient avec le dit Galeaz. [p.932]

[Gian Galeazzo Visconti wants to go fox hunting. He's milling about with some courtiers.]

Je regarday et vy Galeaz en compaingnie de haulz et vaillans hommez mez je y vy deux chevaliers a qui il parloit. Ceulz furent de hault renom. Le premier fu monseingneur Jaquez de Verme; cil tousdiz fu son cappitaine en toutes ses guerres ... [p.933] De l'autre chevalier vous deviseray, car il est de haut renom et bel chevalier et jolis et amoreux et moult prisiéz par mains regnez, et est jeunes de .xxx. ans. Cil demoura premierement en Pymont, ou il fist assés d'armes contre les ennemis qui guerre faisoient, et lors estoit il moult jeunes enffant quant, a une ville que on nomme Salucez, il fist merveillez d'armez. Car les ennemis vindrent courre devant la ville et il estoit dedans, et en yssi. Que vous diroye [je]? Il fist tant par sa valour et a l'aide des siens que tous furent pris et mis a desconffiture; la fu il navrés. Si advint qu'il trouva un Allemant de haulte bonté qui avoit [p.934] voué de faire armes, et quant cil le sçot, il le delivra moult vaillaument. La firent desmesuréz courses et joustez et autres envoisurez pour une dame de haulte beaulté qu'il amoit par amours. Cil s'en ala es guerres de France es frontieres des Anglois, et la faisoit maintes chevaleriez par ses armes. Un jour advint que il oÿ renom d'un cappitaine anglois qui la estoit, et disoient qu'il mesprisoit Françoys pour la haute chevalerie qu'il sentoit en soy, car il estoit de fiere grandeur et force. Dont les aucuns dient qu'il avoit gaingnié par sa force et chevalerie .vij. gaigez de bataille; autres dient que plus. Dont cil sçot son orgueil et le mesprisement qu'il faisoit. Si trouva maniere de combatre contre lui, et a brief il le desconffi, voyant mains chevaliers et escuiers, Françoys et Angloiz qui la estoient. A celle journée fut il premierement chevalier, ou Françoiz recevrent grant honnour pour celle bataille. Cil passa oultre mer, a Sainte Katerine et aux autres voyages de la. La lui vindrent maintes bellez aventurez, tant en armes comme en autrez choses, et le roy de Cippre moult le honnoura et le retint en sa compaingnie grant temps; mais il s'en revint et passa en Allemaingne quant le roy de France fu en Juler, et partout avoit grant pris. [p. 935] Lors s'en vint en Lombardie ou il courut contre un Allement de hault pris et le delivra de ses vveuz. Un autre chevalier anglois de hault estat et valour va il delivrer devant Galeaz, seingneur de Milan, dedans son chastel a Pavie. La firent desmesuréz cops, car il getta le destrier et le chevalier tout a un coup a terre. Cil s'en ala en Honguerie contre les mescreans aux guerres que le roy de Honguerie devant nommé faisoit contre les Turs que Baldesar Basquin tenoit suz Hongrie, et la et partout conqueroit mains honnours. Dont il revint fu en Lombardie ou il emprist gaige de bataille contre Boussicaut, celli qui est frere de l'autre Boussicaut que est un des mareschaulz de France. Cil Boussicaut est moult noble chevalier et hardi, lequel vint de France en Lombardie pour sa bataille acomplir, atout trop noble compaingnie de chevaliers de France, et vint a Padoe devant le seingneur qui leur avoit ottroyé le champ devant li, car autre seingneur de Lombardie ne lui voult ottroyer. Dont cil chevalier dessus nommés y vint aussi atout moult noble compaingnie de Ytaliens. Et quant ilz furent en la place pour faire leur devoir, le dit seingneur de Padoe ne souffri mie que telz deux chevaliers deussent a tels effors venir. Ainsi, aprés leur premiere empointe, les [p. 936] departi honnourablement. Assés vous pourroye [je] dire, mais il n'est homme a qui cil chevalier faille de nulles armes autrui accomplir, ne autre essay a quoy on le vueille mectre, tant est de grant hardement. Et bien sachent tuit que se il puet vivre par son aage, il se pourra comparer au bon Tristant de Lyonois ou a Palamidez pour sa haute chevalerie. Et se aucun me demandoit qui est cil chevalier, je diroye que ce est messire Galeaz de Mantoe, un des meilleurs chevaliers et plus appert que feust a celle grant assemblée ou tout le monde estoit assembléz ainsi comme devisié vous ay. Ces deux chevaliers furent en la compaingnie de Galeaz Vescont, seingneur de Milan.

[It goes on to talk about Galeazzo Visconti.]

More to come...
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Postby Fab » 26 Jun 2007 21:20

Thanks.
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Postby Ariella Elema » 26 Jun 2007 21:26

CCXXXVII: Comment Foy le chevalier et Esperance sa suer mainent le chevalier errant a l'ostel de ma dame Congnoissance leur mere.

[The Knight Errant of the frame narrative encounters a herald and asks him for news. This is the herald's reply.]

"Sire je vien de Lombardie et de la cité de Milan de une grant feste et merveilleurse que on y a fait. Et la furent presque touz les seingneurs d'Ytalie, et la greingneur part des nolez. Et y purent mains nobles chevaliers de France, et entre les autres y fut le seingneur de Coussy premierement. La firent mains tounoys et joustez. Si advint que Theodor, marquis de Monfferra, ot le pris du tounoy de l'une des partiez. et un autre jour ot le pris de jousteez de la partie des attendans, lesquelz n'estoient que .iiij. qui attendoient diz poyntes a chascun venant. Le premier fu le dit Theodor, marquiz et monseingneur Guillaume de Monferra, son frere. Le tiers fu monseingneur Galeat Por[is] un noble chevalier de Milan. Le quart fu messire Galeaz del Mentoa, un autre noble chevalier que ailleurs vouz ay nomméz ... Et celle feste on faisoit car l'empereur avoit ordonné Galeaz Vescont qui son vicaire estoit en Lombardie, a estre duc de Milan." [pp. 1014-5]
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Postby Ariella Elema » 26 Jun 2007 22:08

Here's my English translation. It's still a bit quick and dirty, so don't take it for gospel and feel free to post corrections.

Chapter 309: How Galeazzo Visconti wished to tame a little fox and what then occurred. And it also speaks of two knights who were with the said Galeazzo.

I observed and saw Galeazzo in the company of high-ranking and valiant men, but I saw there two knights to whom he was speaking. These were men of high renown. The first was Milord Jacques de Verme, he whom everyone said was his captain in all his wars. ... [Jacques le Verme gets a short paragraph of biography.] Of the other knight I shall tell you, for he is of high renown and a fair knight, handsome and amorous, and much esteemed throughout many kingdoms, and he is a youth of thirty years.

This man lived first in Piedmont, where he did many deeds of arms against the enemies who were waging war there; and he was a very young boy when, at a town called Saluzzo, he did marvellous deeds of arms. For enemies came to attack before the town and he was there inside. What can I tell you? He did such deeds with his valour and the aid of his people that all of them (the enemies) were taken and routed; he was wounded there.

So it happened that he found a German of great virtue who had vowed to do a deed of arms, and when this knight found out, he delivered him of the vow very valliantly. They performed extraordinary courses and jousts in a town called Fossan. The knight performed many jousts and other amusements for a woman of high beauty whom he cherished with love.

He went forth to the French wars on the English borders and there did many chivalrous deeds of arms. One day it happened that he heard about the reputation of an English captain who ws there, and folk said that the captain doubted that the French had the high chivalry he perceived in himself, for he was of prodigious size and strength. For some say that with his strength and chivalry he had won seven wagers of battle; others say more. Thus the knight learned of his arrogance and the insult he had made. So he found a way to fight him and, in short, he defeated him while many French and English knights and squires who were there looked on. And from that day he was a preeminent knight, for the French received great honour for that battle.

This knight passed beyond the sea, to St. Catherine and on other voyages from there. In those lands many fair adventures befell him both in arms and in other things, and the king of Cyprus honoured him greatly and retained him in his company a long time. But he returned and came to Germany when the King of France was in Juliers and had great prestige everywhere.

At that point he took himself to Lombardy, where he rode against a German of high renown and delivered him of his vows. Another English knight of valour and high estate he went to deliver before Galeazzo, Lord of Milan, in his castle in Pavia. There they threw prodigious blows, for all of a sudden our hero hurled both the knight and his warhorse to the ground.

Our knight then went to Hungary against the miscreants in the wars that the aforementioned [elsewhere in the book] King of Hungary waged against the Turks whom Baldesar Basquin (Sultan Bejazet I?) controlled south of Hungary; and there and everywhere he took many honours.

From there he returned to Lombardy, where he undertook a wager of battle against Boucicaut, he who is the brother of the other Boucicaut, who is one of the marshals of France. This Boucicaut is a very noble knight and bold, who came from France to Lombardy to carry out his battle together with a very noble company of knights from France. And he came to Padua before the lord who had granted him a field before himself, for no other lord in Lombardy dared grant it. And so the knight named below also came there with a very noble company of Italians. And when they were in the place to do their duty, the said lord of Padua could not endure that two such knights should have to come for such an endeavour. And so, after their first exchange, they departed honourably.

I could tell you much, but there is not a man for whom this knight hasn't done some deed of arms or other endeavour that one could wish to undertake, such is his boldness. And everyone knows that if he lives a long life, he will be able to be compared to Tristan of Lyonesse or Palamides for his high chivalry. And if anyone were to ask me who this knight is, I would say he is Sir Galeazzo of Mantua, one of the best and most skilled knights who were at this great assembly where everyone was assembled just as I have told you. These two knights (i.e. Jacques le Verme and Galeazzo of Mantua) were in the company of Gian Galeazzo Visconti, Lord of Milan.

Chapter 337: How Faith the knight and his sister Hope hosted the Knight Errant at the residence of their mother, Milady Knowledge

[The herald says] "Sir, I am come from Lombardy and the city of Milan, from a great and marvellous festival that was held there. Nearly all the lords of Italy were there, and the greater part of the nobles. And there were many noble knights from France, among others the lord of Coucy preeminently. There they held many tourneys and jousts. Indeed, it happened that Theodore, Marquis of Montferrat, took the prize for the tournament of one of the parties. And on another day he received the prize for the jousts from the party of those who were defending, of whom there were but four. The number one player was the said Theodore the Marquis, and there was also Guillaume of Montferrat his brother. The third was Milord Galeas Poris, a noble knight from Milan. The fourth was Sir Galeazzo of Mantua, another noble knight whom I have mentioned elsewhere. ... and this festival was held because the Emperor had invested Galeazzo Visconti, who was his governor in Lombardy, as Duke of Milan."
Last edited by Ariella Elema on 26 Jun 2007 22:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Fab » 26 Jun 2007 22:11

If you need that translation reviewed/corrected, I'd be happy to do that - but later.

The most important thing is that the Lesser Boucicault is likely the one Fiore mentions.

Equally important, Saluces states that the Lord of Mantua separated the two combattants just after the first blow has been exchanged - so much for a display of Fiore's student's skills :)

Edited.
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Postby admin » 27 Jun 2007 00:36

Fascinating! Is anyone else thinking of Baldassaro now?...
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Postby Ariella Elema » 27 Jun 2007 23:21

Equally important, Saluces states that the Lord of Mantua separated the two combattants just after the first blow has been exchanged - so much for a display of Fiore's student's skills



I guess it does explain the motivation for the rematch a few years later.

There are some more points I found interesting.

1) History students tend to think that medieval folk were considered old at age forty or so because forty was about the average life expectancy. But here Galeazzo is still considered a youth (jeunes) at thirty. People today forget that an average life expectancy is just an average, and a high infant mortality rate can have a big impact on that number. And anyway, since there wasn't really anything resembling a census until the Florentine catasto in the middle of the fifteenth century, medieval demography is mostly guesswork to begin with.

2) The incident with the English captain is interesting because of the way Thomas uses the word 'chivalry' (chevalerie). In this context, it seems to mean something like "ability to kick ass" and doesn't seem to have much to do with mercy, courtly love, generosity or piety. That's consistent with the findings of Richard Kaeuper, in his book Chivalry and Violence, where he pointed out that while medieval notions of chivalry encompassed all those virtues, the vast majority of references to the concept in medieval romances referred to a knight's fighting abilities and nothing more.

3) This book says that three members of the tournament team from the festivities in Milan got together with Jacopo (Jacques) del Verme six years later to command an army against the Florentines.
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Postby Fab » 28 Jun 2007 00:09

Ariella Elema wrote:1) History students tend to think that medieval folk were considered old at age forty or so because forty was about the average life expectancy. But here Galeazzo is still considered a youth (jeunes) at thirty. People today forget that an average life expectancy is just an average, and a high infant mortality rate can have a big impact on that number. And anyway, since there wasn't really anything resembling a census until the Florentine catasto in the middle of the fifteenth century, medieval demography is mostly guesswork to begin with.


Tell me something I don't know :roll:
[quote
Though I think history students here (at least those I know) are well above that cliché. And archaeologists too, that goes without saying ;)

Besides, eve, if a significant part of the population died at 40 (which in itslef is highly debatable), maybe they considered still that this was dying a young age.

Same goes with average height through history. Common falsehood takes for granted that our ancestors were all tootheless midgets whose hair turned white at 30.


2) The incident with the English captain is interesting because of the way Thomas uses the word 'chivalry' (chevalerie). In this context, it seems to mean something like "ability to kick ass" and doesn't seem to have much to do with mercy, courtly love, generosity or piety. That's consistent with the findings of Richard Kaeuper, in his book Chivalry and Violence, where he pointed out that while medieval notions of chivalry encompassed all those virtues, the vast majority of references to the concept in medieval romances referred to a knight's fighting abilities and nothing more.


Agreed, again. Chivalry was not what modern day people think it is. Same goes for nobility.
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Postby Greg Mele » 25 Jul 2007 18:42

hey Matt,

Ironic that it may be baby Bouccicault after we thought that and abandoned it, eh?

As to the second duel, the only authority I have found stating that it was the Marshal is Jacob Burkhardt, who mentions it in passing, but of course, with no citation.

A fun mystery - thanks for this Ariella!
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Re: Galeazzo de Mantua

Postby bigdummy » 28 Jan 2010 21:41

Is there any account of the second duel?

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Re: Galeazzo de Mantua

Postby admin » 29 Jan 2010 12:23

Damn, I'm going to have to look into my sources, my memory is failing. I'm pretty sure there is a full account of the second duel and that it was fought on foot with pollaxes.
Perhaps the second duel's Boucicaut was the big brother and the first duel (described above) was the younger.. That could explain the confusion, or not!
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Re: Galeazzo de Mantua

Postby admin » 29 Jan 2010 12:25

Hah! God bless the search function! -
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9432
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Re: Galeazzo de Mantua

Postby admin » 29 Jan 2010 12:30

Also related (sort of) -
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10743

Fab, do we have more about the 1406 fight?
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Re: Galeazzo de Mantua

Postby Fab » 29 Jan 2010 13:13

admin wrote:Also related (sort of) -
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10743

Fab, do we have more about the 1406 fight?


Not that much. AFAIK. Though it must be told with more details elsewhere. Not much time to search on that at the moment, sorry.
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Re: Galeazzo de Mantua

Postby Michael Chidester » 23 Sep 2014 15:58

From there he returned to Lombardy, where he undertook a wager of battle against Boucicaut, he who is the brother of the other Boucicaut, who is one of the marshals of France.

I had thought that "our" Boucicaut was Jean II Le Maingre, son of Jean Le Maingre, both of whom were ultimately marshals of France and called Boucicaut. But one of them had a brother who was also called Boucicaut? How many Boucicauts are there?
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Re: Galeazzo de Mantua

Postby Gary Gibson » 21 Nov 2014 08:06

Is there any information on where Galeazzo de Mantua is buried / funerary is located ?

I'd love to pay my respects to one of Fiore dei Liberi's most famous students...


P.S. Are there any portraits of Galeazzo (I have heard that there is one, but have not been able to find it) ?
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Re: Galeazzo de Mantua

Postby Gary Gibson » 14 Dec 2014 20:20

I am really hoping someone here has information or leads to the location of Galeazzo de Mantua's burial or funerary monument. The goal is to find this location prior to an early August, 2015 when members of Schola San Marco will make a trip to northern Italy.

As Greg Mele said in his paper Captain of Fortune: Galeazzo da Montova "He was buried with Venetian and Milanese honors...", I suspect that there is or at least was a funerary monument of some sort.

Do any of you have suggestions as to how one would go about searching for this information (who does not speak Italian, but can piece things together with an Italian/English dictionary and Google translate) ?

Any suggestions on contacting Greg Mele on this subject ?

There is quite a lengthy list of his deeds/activities in the Condottieri di Ventura site . Could this group be a source of info ?

Any suggestions of groups or societies (in Italy ?) that might be good to send inquiries to ?

Any assistance is greately appreciated.
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