Had Vadi memorized the couplets?

Fiore dei Liberi and his treatises Fior di Battaglia/Flos Duellatorum c.1410.
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Had Vadi memorized the couplets?

Postby Sean M » 07 Aug 2013 18:02

I am turning my Fiore talk into an article, and I need to pin down some of the ideas which I picked up in person or online. Ransacking my library and searching here and on Swordforum has not turned up what I want.

Vadi's version of Fiore's couplets are paraphrases, which suggests that he may have dictated from memory rather than copying a manuscript. Who first suggested this? I can't find it in Porzio and Mele or Windsor (although I don't own Guy's new Vadi book). Has anyone criticized it in writing?
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Re: Had Vadi memorized the couplets?

Postby CPenney » 07 Aug 2013 23:43

Hi, Sean. I can't recall who might have talked about Vadi memorizing Fiore specifically, but it was Mary Carruthers' The Book of Memory that was popular for a while in explaining how people in the middle ages looked at memory, how and why a book like Flos Duellatorum would have been constructed, and it's purpose as an aide memoire.

I hope that helps!
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Re: Had Vadi memorized the couplets?

Postby Sean M » 10 Aug 2013 22:31

Hi Chris,

I've read Carruthers a few times, as well as similar books on mnemonics in the ancient world and some things on mnemonics in sermons. Her book is very good, and the other things which I have read on memory tend to support it.

Looking over Vadi again, it seems that the close textual parallels are fewer than I remember (the preface, some of the poste, and some armoured plays). I'm still interested in anything which anyone can remember about the relationship between Vadi and Fiore! I don't want to attribute an idea to myself which I picked up from someone else, or say something which someone else has rebutted.
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Re: Had Vadi memorized the couplets?

Postby Michael Chidester » 10 Aug 2013 23:07

There are two historical Vadis that have been identified as strong candidates for our guy--one by Ubaldo Vadi and Andrea Conti, the other by Greg Mele--and they both served the Este family in Ferrara and thus could have had direct access to Fiore's manuscripts.
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Re: Had Vadi memorized the couplets?

Postby Sean M » 11 Aug 2013 18:22

Thanks Michael. Humh, I had forgotten the HEMA Alliance thread which you cite on Wiktenauer.

Do we have any evidence that Vadi-the-doctor had access to the ducal library? Vadi-the-governor would have. Either could have owned their own copy of some version of Fiore with the short text, since there were at least four copies circulating outside of the library in the late 15th century.
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Re: Had Vadi memorized the couplets?

Postby Michael Chidester » 11 Aug 2013 18:38

I have no idea, really. Greg seems to think so, but I haven't seen him write up his Vadi anywhere but that one thread. Does anyone know how open the Este library was in the late Fifteenth Century? Did it require some special dispensation, or could any decently-connected citizen use it?
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Re: Had Vadi memorized the couplets?

Postby Sean M » 27 Aug 2013 19:49

I am told that Guy Windsor suggests that Vadi learned the couplets orally in "Veni Vadi Vici" and "Italian Longsword Guards" (both on Scribd). I can't find the reference in the later, and can't afford the former right now.
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Re: Had Vadi memorized the couplets?

Postby admin » 02 Sep 2013 12:27

If my memory serves me correctly then Greg Mele and Bob Charron both came up with the theory over a decade ago now, back when Greg was working on Vadi with Luca Porzio and Bob Charron was preparing his publication on Fiore (which never happened).
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