talks about Fiore in old books

Fiore dei Liberi and his treatises Fior di Battaglia/Flos Duellatorum c.1410.
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talks about Fiore in old books

Postby Bulot » 28 Nov 2012 21:41

This stuff is mentioned in Zanutto/Novati, so nothing really new here, but it's online, and may be useful to someone :

"Della Eloquenza italiana di monsignor Giusto Fontanini", published in 1736, pp274-276
http://books.google.ca/books?id=929Oruf ... &q&f=false

"Notizie delle vite ed opere scritte da ' letterati del Friuli",Tome 4, publisehd in 1830, Gian Guiseppe Liruti di Villafredda,
http://books.google.ca/books?id=swCiIpD ... &q&f=false

Interestingly, both assume Fiore to be a descendant of Cristallo dei Liberi de Premariacco, who received his very special status and protection for him and his family from Holy Emperor Henry V in 1110, as mentioned in frioulan archives :
http://books.google.ca/books?id=kKABAAA ... &q&f=false
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Re: talks about Fiore in old books

Postby Michael Chidester » 28 Nov 2012 23:26

Yes, I believe that claim has been investigated but nothing fruitful has turned up.
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Re: talks about Fiore in old books

Postby Bulot » 28 Nov 2012 23:46

Yep', that's unfortunate. Do we know about any other Liberi in Premariacco, btw ?

Also, Gian Guiseppe Liruti mentions a letter from Apostolo Zeno to Fontanini dated from the 4th of July 1699, describing what I suppose is the Getty (he owned it, at the time). I went through Zeno's Lettere but it was'nt there.
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Re: talks about Fiore in old books

Postby Michael Chidester » 28 Nov 2012 23:54

There are scans of it in Malipiero's book, and I profile it briefly here: http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Fior_di_Battaglia_(MS_XXIV)
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Re: talks about Fiore in old books

Postby Bulot » 28 Nov 2012 23:59

Oh that's the one. Cool, thanks. I read about it on the Wiktenauer but it completely slipped my mind.
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Re: talks about Fiore in old books

Postby leonardo daneluz » 30 Nov 2012 15:48

Is "liberi" a surname (The liberi of Premariacco) or just a social class ("The freemen of Premariacco")?
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Re: talks about Fiore in old books

Postby Bulot » 30 Nov 2012 16:18

Could be any.

Liberi were a minor class of the german nobility, which was almost disappeared by end of the XIVth century.
It was also a surname, but there are no trace of a noble family of "Liberi" in Premariacco after the XIIth century.

in other documents Fiore is simply called "Magister" or "Scarmitor", with no other title indicating his belonging to a noble family, so maybe he was a commoner and "Fiore of the noble house of the Liberi" is justsome sort of pseudonym.
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Re: talks about Fiore in old books

Postby leonardo daneluz » 30 Nov 2012 17:01

"liberi" is a term used in the Triveneto in connection with families which own lands. So they are not exactly servs but are not nobles neither. At least until the XVIII cent. I didn´t know there was a relation wiht an ancient germanic class. Many in that class have surnames of jewish or foreign origin, for example.
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Re: talks about Fiore in old books

Postby Bulot » 30 Nov 2012 17:56

It makes sense.
Fiore's family was obviously wealthy enough to finance his education, but he had to work as a fencing master, which is hardly a noble profession.
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Re: talks about Fiore in old books

Postby Michael Chidester » 30 Nov 2012 21:24

Could be that Cristallo's descendents fell on hard times after a while and lost their noble status, but held on to their pride.
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Re: talks about Fiore in old books

Postby leonardo daneluz » 01 Dec 2012 01:03

How much do you believe that Cristallo is efectively related to Fiore? I mean: there is 200 years, the "liberi" question may be is not so clearly a surname. What if Cristallo is just the only other famous person from Premariacco who could be related to him?
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Re: talks about Fiore in old books

Postby Bulot » 01 Dec 2012 05:34

There is no clear indication that Fiore and Cristallo are related. Fontanini and Liruti report this information as a fact, but there is no substantial proof.
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