The cross step and stepping into the bind.

Fiore dei Liberi and his treatises Fior di Battaglia/Flos Duellatorum c.1410.
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The cross step and stepping into the bind.

Postby Matclarke » 04 Oct 2012 17:09

I've begun to look closer at Fiore and interpretations thereof.

Colin Richards shows a cross-step with a fendente attack, where he steps across the centreline with a passing step. I belive he calls it a 'Passa a la Traversa Fore del Strada'.

Guy Windsor does something similar here- (exchange of thrusts?)
http://youtu.be/lwDeAYXNndM?t=56s

I've seen this move floated about with some German manuals, often based on the artwork.

Where do Fioreans get it? Translations I've seeing often mention a 'traversing' step. Is this step explicitly stated to be one that crosses the initial centreline?
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Re: The cross step and stepping into the bind.

Postby Motley » 04 Oct 2012 17:46

It generally comes from the Exhange of thrust, break of thrust and Villians strike plays. It is mentioned in the Posta did Donna description too just after it talks about exchanging so I tend to assume it is part of that not a separate action.

Some people do it everywhere but I am not sure that is right.
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Re: The cross step and stepping into the bind.

Postby Motley » 04 Oct 2012 18:02

to be a little clearer from what I recall at the moment from the Villians strike.

The text says to step off line (Fiore uses the term strada, street). As you are explicitly told to start left foot forward this must be to the left off the line not across it. Then you are told to pass obliquely. This text is almost the same in the others plays I previously mentioned too. If you then look at the pictures, in the Getty at least he has clearly passed across in the same direction as the initial step.

It makes sense from a positioning point of view in each of these plays too. In the exchange it gives an angular advantage on his sword, in the villians strike it puts you to his outside as you yield under cover.

Does this help?
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Re: The cross step and stepping into the bind.

Postby CPenney » 04 Oct 2012 22:09

Yeah, the footwork is Fiore, though he describes it in the context of some specific plays (as Dan has described). As far as initiating an attack using this footwork, I'd say (insofar as I can without knowing the details) that that would be an adaptation of Colin's.
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Re: The cross step and stepping into the bind.

Postby admin » 04 Oct 2012 22:12

Agreed with the above posters. IMO it is specific footwork for those plays and the rebat. In my opinion commencing regular attacks with it is idiotic and pointless. :)
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Re: The cross step and stepping into the bind.

Postby CPenney » 06 Oct 2012 14:37

I'll post this here, as it seems apropos, but I noticed an older thread talking about Fiore's use of traversare:

http://www.fioredeiliberi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15041

I'd actually noted the other day that Fiore seems to use traverse as another word for crossing swords, rather than a direction (i.e. pass to cross, rather than pass cross-wise). There was no actual discussion in that thread, but I think the notion is quite interesting, and it would change (and simplify) how a lot of the plays work.

Thoughts?
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Re: The cross step and stepping into the bind.

Postby Matclarke » 17 Nov 2012 07:24

Cheers for the info. Unfortunately, haven't had the time to explore much further, so don't have much to say.

Motley wrote:to be a little clearer from what I recall at the moment from the Villians strike.

The text says to step off line (Fiore uses the term strada, street). As you are explicitly told to start left foot forward this must be to the left off the line not across it. Then you are told to pass obliquely. This text is almost the same in the others plays I previously mentioned too. If you then look at the pictures, in the Getty at least he has clearly passed across in the same direction as the initial step.

It makes sense from a positioning point of view in each of these plays too. In the exchange it gives an angular advantage on his sword, in the villians strike it puts you to his outside as you yield under cover.

Does this help?


Yes.

I agree this is clear in the Getty. However, does the 'oblique' (la traversa fora de strada) pass always mean a step across the centreline? If so, what is an oblique passing step that doesn't cross the centreline (Liechtenauer style) called?
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