Initiating an attack

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Postby admin » 21 Oct 2009 15:01

If you come to the close a lot then practice the elbow-push and stab until you can do it in your sleep. Or the one-handed pommel and elbow-push. They're my fav's for when someone closes on me.
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Postby Motley » 21 Oct 2009 15:05

The elbow push is actually my fave :-) but I often end up doing it when I am vulnerable to being counted with the exact same thing. :-(

At the moment I am putting this down to not being positioned correctly.
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Postby Brewerkel » 21 Oct 2009 15:27

Motley wrote:The elbow push is actually my fave :-) but I often end up doing it when I am vulnerable to being counted with the exact same thing. :-(

At the moment I am putting this down to not being positioned correctly.


More grappling practice to develop footwork and balance awareness; less choppy choppy stoppy stoppy with the sword. You guys relied way too much on static blocks at the practice I attended. Its wasted effort. Also, practice the plays of the sword in one hand much more if you want proficiency with elbow pushs and other entries. Flowing from two hand crossings to one hand entries requires experience managing the bind with one hand on a sword. :wink:
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Postby Motley » 21 Oct 2009 15:31

imho we need more practice with everything.
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Postby snowcelt » 21 Oct 2009 15:40

Hi Dan,

as has been advised above, keep it simple. If you attack correctly and he does nothing or parries poorly, you'll succeed in your attack (usually). If he parries properly, assuming this is the action he takes, you need to react accordingly. He may of course avoid entirely, cut at your hands, collect etc.

We tend to train in stepped drills to give us options on what to do after the attack is parried. This is in line with what Matt has been saying on following up on the attack. Of course, while what is shown in the drills are just some options on what may be done based on the Fiore material, there are multiple other ways of reacting. Traing drills like this repeatedly, first stepped until each step is learned, then as one "engagement" help to overcome that "oh shit!" moment when you've attacked and your partner parries but you've no idea what to do next.

http://www.swordschool.com/school/sylla ... index.html

As we're often told, we should be patient learning this stuff. Do we have a duel to the death at dawn tomorrow? Usually not :-) So, what's the hurry?

Enjoy your training
Kevin O'Brien.
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Turku Association for Historical Swordsmanship
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Postby Cutlery Penguin » 21 Oct 2009 15:57

If I can point my finger at one thing that made a noticable difference in my ability to close to a cross and deal with that cross it was the acceptance that I am going to get hit.

If I am concerned about it I unconsciously hold back and then I do get hit. If I embrace getting hit on the way in I tend not to.

It's tricky though, I still regularly catch myself holding back without realising and have to give myself a mental kick up the backside.

To quote Harley "Greave not greatly though you be touched a litlte"
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Postby Motley » 21 Oct 2009 15:59

Cutlery Penguin wrote:If I can point my finger at one thing that made a noticable difference in my ability to close to a cross and deal with that cross it was the acceptance that I am going to get hit.

If I am concerned about it I unconsciously hold back and then I do get hit. If I embrace getting hit on the way in I tend not to.

It's tricky though, I still regularly catch myself holding back without realising and have to give myself a mental kick up the backside.

To quote Harley "Greave not greatly though you be touched a litlte"


ooh I like that quote..
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Postby Cutlery Penguin » 21 Oct 2009 16:25

Motley wrote:
Cutlery Penguin wrote:If I can point my finger at one thing that made a noticable difference in my ability to close to a cross and deal with that cross it was the acceptance that I am going to get hit.

If I am concerned about it I unconsciously hold back and then I do get hit. If I embrace getting hit on the way in I tend not to.

It's tricky though, I still regularly catch myself holding back without realising and have to give myself a mental kick up the backside.

To quote Harley "Greave not greatly though you be touched a litlte"


ooh I like that quote..


In context it says "Greue not gretly thov yu be tochyd a 1yte

ffor a aftr stroke ys betr yf thou dar hÿ smyte"

Which I admit is less helpful :D
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Postby Motley » 21 Oct 2009 16:35

Cutlery Penguin wrote:
Motley wrote:
Cutlery Penguin wrote:If I can point my finger at one thing that made a noticable difference in my ability to close to a cross and deal with that cross it was the acceptance that I am going to get hit.

If I am concerned about it I unconsciously hold back and then I do get hit. If I embrace getting hit on the way in I tend not to.

It's tricky though, I still regularly catch myself holding back without realising and have to give myself a mental kick up the backside.

To quote Harley "Greave not greatly though you be touched a litlte"


ooh I like that quote..


In context it says "Greue not gretly thov yu be tochyd a 1yte

ffor a aftr stroke ys betr yf thou dar hÿ smyte"

Which I admit is less helpful :D


So something along the line of:
Greave not greatly though you be touched a little
for an after stroke is better if you dare his hit?
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Postby Cutlery Penguin » 21 Oct 2009 16:46

Motley wrote:
Cutlery Penguin wrote:
Motley wrote:
Cutlery Penguin wrote:If I can point my finger at one thing that made a noticable difference in my ability to close to a cross and deal with that cross it was the acceptance that I am going to get hit.

If I am concerned about it I unconsciously hold back and then I do get hit. If I embrace getting hit on the way in I tend not to.

It's tricky though, I still regularly catch myself holding back without realising and have to give myself a mental kick up the backside.

To quote Harley "Greave not greatly though you be touched a litlte"


ooh I like that quote..


In context it says "Greue not gretly thov yu be tochyd a 1yte

ffor a aftr stroke ys betr yf thou dar hÿ smyte"

Which I admit is less helpful :D


So something along the line of:
Greave not greatly though you be touched a little
for an after stroke is better if you dare his hit?


I'd say him rather than his, but pretty much yes.

I think it is simply an exhortation to be brave and commit to closing because if you do it will (should?) work out in your favour.
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Postby paladin » 23 Oct 2009 20:16

Just to add somewhat here -

If you look at the PD and Latin versions of the manuscript, you will notice that *both* players are wearing crowns - the attacker and the defender, and that goes for both the crossing at the punta and at the mezza, as well as the giocco stretto remedy master, where we could posit that both players have attacked into each other with a pass.

Taking this a bit further, it really means that from the bind, you can do whatever he can do. Initiative wins it, be you attacker or defender.

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Postby Motley » 23 Oct 2009 20:20

From what I remember when I looked over Brian Stokes' Florius(BNF) the middle largo crossing has both with the right foot forward rather than the left as seen in our others.

So yeah I think that is the case too and in a few instances has served me perfectly. I just haven't been that consistent :-)
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