English ball pommels

[admin]

I have raised this topic before, but I just found another example. It seems that for a long period of time spherical pommels, with vertical lines like a peeled orange, were popular in England:



Thomas Montacute in the 1420's/30's?





The sword found on the Mary Rose wreck - 1545 (other early English basket-hilts also have globe pommels like this).



The cover of Joseph Swetnam's treatise of 1617, showing typically English style two-handers (even though that sword type is not covered in the treatise).

[Thearos]

Does Montacute (who is wearing tournament armour ?) hold his woman on a leash ?

[Phil C]

Does Montacute (who is wearing tournament armour ?) hold his woman on a leash ?

She holds him on a golden chain. It's a common physical metaphor for Romantic Love in the era, "Servitium Amoris".

It's be interesting to know if the pommels are solid or hollow too. All Scottish examples I know of are hollow which makes it intriguing as to why and how they were made.

[admin]

Phil, every single example that I have seen in real life is hollow (as are many original large wheel pommels). As far as I am aware they are forged from iron sheet in two halves and then brazed together. I would imagine that it is therefore quite tricky to get the weight on them correct, though maybe weight can be added to the hollow inside if necessary (though I have no evidence that this was done).

[admin]

A painting of Edward III, probably made in 1615 -

[Thearos]

Does Montacute (who is wearing tournament armour ?) hold his woman on a leash ?

She holds him on a golden chain. It's a common physical metaphor for Romantic Love in the era, "Servitium Amoris".

-- oh of course ! Must remember that line.

[Stevie T]

Phil, every single example that I have seen in real life is hollow (as are many original large wheel pommels). As far as I am aware they are forged from iron sheet in two halves and then brazed together. I would imagine that it is therefore quite tricky to get the weight on them correct, though maybe weight can be added to the hollow inside if necessary (though I have no evidence that this was done).

I would imagine that after your 7 year apprenticeship that you'd be able to judge things pretty closely, but perhaps that's why the have the segmenting grooves? Make them a tad heavy then fine tune by filing the grooves a bit more.

Alternatively you rummage through the bin of round, segemented pommels until you find one that is weighted as you need it.!

[admin]

Yeah probably - a cutler probably literally would have a sack full of pommels!
One correction though - the segment lines are usually ribs rather than grooves, they stand above the surface. They are forged outwards presumably from the inside of the two sphere halves.

[Stevie T]

One correction though - the segment lines are usually ribs rather than grooves, they stand above the surface. They are forged outwards presumably from the inside of the two sphere halves.

Interesting. Would be nice to see some x-rays of something that would give more info on how they were made, and possibly modified.

Any idea on how thick the walls are on some of these?

[Payson]

Here is a 17th century sword with a ball pommel but smaller and not ribbed for anyone's pleasure. Although it is in the huge hoard of English art treasures that is held in the Hermitage collection in St. Petersburg, there are, according to this book, no details of where it is from.

[Payson]

Except the bit about King Charles engraved on the blade!