German invasion of Britain in 1870

Original artifacts, written sources, historical art work. Ancient to c.1900.
Open to public view.

German invasion of Britain in 1870

Postby admin » Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:01 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_of_Dorking

The Battle of Dorking is a 1871 novel of the genre which has been termed Invasion literature. It was written by George Tomkyns Chesney and has been seen as an influence on H. G. Wells' novel The War of the Worlds.[citation needed] Written just after the Prussian victory in the Franco-Prussian War it describes a military invasion of Britain by a foreign power which the preface makes clear is Germany.

It was first published as a serial in Blackwood's Magazine, then in pamphlet form before finally appearing as a novel. It went through several editions and engaged the interest of soldiers and politicians, as well as the reading public. Chesney was a captain in the Royal Engineers and had grown concerned over the ramshackle state of Britain's armed forces. He used fiction as a device to promulgate his views after letters and journalism on the issue had failed to impact on the public consciousness. The story gains power from its point of view from after a successful invasion of Britain.



Fiction like this led to Cardwell's reforms of the British Army in the 1870's.
Martial Challenge - (Won/Lost/Played) - 2/1/3
SCHOLA GLADIATORIA - http://www.swordfightlondon.com
HEMAC - http://www.hemac.org

"Trust in Allah, but tie up your camel."
User avatar
admin
Emperor
 
Posts: 27148
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:28 pm
Location: Guildford, Surrey, England.

Re: German invasion of Britain in 1870

Postby steel bonnet » Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:20 pm

Erskine Childers had similar influence with "The Riddle of the Sands."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riddle_of_the_Sands
Ken. O
"hakkaa päälle"
User avatar
steel bonnet
Major
 
Posts: 800
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:35 pm
Location: Tir Nan Og.

Re: German invasion of Britain in 1870

Postby Ty N. » Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:23 pm

Dorking...hehe.
Schola Forum - Undermining workplace productivity since 2006.

User avatar
Ty N.
News Hound
 
Posts: 5715
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:31 pm
Location: USA - Maryland - Metro D.C.

Re: German invasion of Britain in 1870

Postby admin » Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:36 pm

We went to Dorking on Saturday. Everything was shut though and we didn't see any Germans.
Martial Challenge - (Won/Lost/Played) - 2/1/3
SCHOLA GLADIATORIA - http://www.swordfightlondon.com
HEMAC - http://www.hemac.org

"Trust in Allah, but tie up your camel."
User avatar
admin
Emperor
 
Posts: 27148
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:28 pm
Location: Guildford, Surrey, England.

Re: German invasion of Britain in 1870

Postby craftyfighter » Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:50 pm

steel bonnet wrote:Erskine Childers had similar influence with "The Riddle of the Sands."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riddle_of_the_Sands


I've always liked this one.
The Iron Door Collective
http://www.swordfightexeter.org/
"Weder krone noch kragen"
User avatar
craftyfighter
Brigadier
 
Posts: 1990
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:01 pm
Location: Exeter Free State...next to the Peoples Republic of Cornwall

Re: German invasion of Britain in 1870

Postby steel bonnet » Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:33 pm

admin wrote:We went to Dorking on Saturday. Everything was shut though and we didn't see any Germans.

Haven't you seen "The Eagle Has Landed"? The Germans have invaded diguised as Poles, led by Michael Caine.
That's why everything was shut; all the Dorks were being held captive in the local church.
Ken. O
"hakkaa päälle"
User avatar
steel bonnet
Major
 
Posts: 800
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:35 pm
Location: Tir Nan Og.

Re: German invasion of Britain in 1870

Postby Hol » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:18 pm

steel bonnet wrote:
admin wrote:We went to Dorking on Saturday. Everything was shut though and we didn't see any Germans.

Haven't you seen "The Eagle Has Landed"? The Germans have invaded diguised as Poles, led by Michael Caine.
That's why everything was shut; all the Dorks were being held captive in the local church.



That book in many ways ripped off huge chunks from the 1942 film "Went the day well?" Which has the strange distinction of being one of the few films that actually shows a child being shot. Most films show before and after with regards to a child being hurt, even today.

Germans invade village, check.

Post mistress kills German, check.

Villagers held in chruch, check.
Sue Boulton.
User avatar
Hol
Lieutenant
 
Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:25 am
Location: UK

Re: German invasion of Britain in 1870

Postby steel bonnet » Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:25 am

Yeah, one of my fave war films, it's surprisingly brutal for an Ealing film but delivers it's rather stark message well.
Ken. O
"hakkaa päälle"
User avatar
steel bonnet
Major
 
Posts: 800
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:35 pm
Location: Tir Nan Og.

Re: German invasion of Britain in 1870

Postby Ty N. » Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:29 am

Aside from the Franco-Prussian War, which wasn't about Britain, why would the British have been overly concerned about Germany in 1870? At the time, Britain controlled the largest global empire in history, and Britain's royal family was still operating under its German name, since the House of Windsor didn't actually exist until 1917.
Schola Forum - Undermining workplace productivity since 2006.

User avatar
Ty N.
News Hound
 
Posts: 5715
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:31 pm
Location: USA - Maryland - Metro D.C.

Re: German invasion of Britain in 1870

Postby craftyfighter » Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:58 am

Ty N. wrote:Aside from the Franco-Prussian War, which wasn't about Britain, why would the British have been overly concerned about Germany in 1870? At the time, Britain controlled the largest global empire in history, and Britain's royal family was still operating under its German name, since the House of Windsor didn't actually exist until 1917.


Yeah it is a little surprising isn't it...however it is true that an element of English society was deeply suspicious of Germany's intentions.
The Iron Door Collective
http://www.swordfightexeter.org/
"Weder krone noch kragen"
User avatar
craftyfighter
Brigadier
 
Posts: 1990
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:01 pm
Location: Exeter Free State...next to the Peoples Republic of Cornwall

Re: German invasion of Britain in 1870

Postby admin » Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:38 am

Ty N. wrote:Aside from the Franco-Prussian War, which wasn't about Britain, why would the British have been overly concerned about Germany in 1870? At the time, Britain controlled the largest global empire in history, and Britain's royal family was still operating under its German name, since the House of Windsor didn't actually exist until 1917.


Britain had mostly supported (though unofficially) France during the Franco-Prussian war - we sent huge amounts of food and supplies to the starving Parisians, who were besieged (not that they remember that now..). The Prussian victory had been scarily rapid and effective, and most of the other German states had allied with Prussia, far quicker than was expected here, and of course German unification was starting to happen. So from a European view, Germany the country was rising up like a great monster, and crushed France quicker than anyone could have predicted. Britain was not only afraid of Germany, but also France. Even in 1870 it was clear that there were three major powers in Europe (not counting Russia) and they all wanted to be top-dog. Britain had a large Empire, but its soldiers and Navy were spread all across the world to keep that Empire in order. It wasn't until after the Cardwell reforms of the 1870's that Britain had a large enough army and reserve force in the UK to actually defend the country.
Royal relations turned out to be pretty irrelevant - all the Royal houses of Europe were inter-related anyway, and that didn't prevent WW1.
Martial Challenge - (Won/Lost/Played) - 2/1/3
SCHOLA GLADIATORIA - http://www.swordfightlondon.com
HEMAC - http://www.hemac.org

"Trust in Allah, but tie up your camel."
User avatar
admin
Emperor
 
Posts: 27148
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:28 pm
Location: Guildford, Surrey, England.

Re: German invasion of Britain in 1870

Postby Ty N. » Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:19 pm

If you had let the Germans keep France during WWI (and also not suckered the Americans into getting involved), WWII never would have happened (at least not in Europe). There would have been no Nazis, no Hitler, no Holocaust, no Iron Curtain, and no Indiana Jones. Well, I suppose it was worth it just for Indy.
Schola Forum - Undermining workplace productivity since 2006.

User avatar
Ty N.
News Hound
 
Posts: 5715
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:31 pm
Location: USA - Maryland - Metro D.C.

Re: German invasion of Britain in 1870

Postby admin » Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:49 pm

Umm.. the Treaty of Versailles was largely an American invention... :roll:
And there was no question of not getting involved in WW1. When you have a treaty you have a treaty. Unless you're France and you ignore the fact that your ally (Czechoslovakia) just got invaded. :P
Martial Challenge - (Won/Lost/Played) - 2/1/3
SCHOLA GLADIATORIA - http://www.swordfightlondon.com
HEMAC - http://www.hemac.org

"Trust in Allah, but tie up your camel."
User avatar
admin
Emperor
 
Posts: 27148
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:28 pm
Location: Guildford, Surrey, England.

Re: German invasion of Britain in 1870

Postby Ty N. » Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:37 pm

I told you not to let the Americans get involved (I got there in my Tardis). In any case, it was Britain and France that insisted upon draconian reparations from Germany. They were entitled, but that pretty much guaranteed there would be another war. As for treaties, you can weasel out of them if you have a good lawyer.
Schola Forum - Undermining workplace productivity since 2006.

User avatar
Ty N.
News Hound
 
Posts: 5715
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:31 pm
Location: USA - Maryland - Metro D.C.

Re: German invasion of Britain in 1870

Postby bigdummy » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:24 am

Both Britain and France hung the Czechs out to dry, to their mutual detriment when they were fighting the German army with Czech tanks a few months later...
"It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
- Thomas Jefferson

http://sdanola.ning.com/
User avatar
bigdummy
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 11564
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:32 pm
Location: New Orleans

Re: German invasion of Britain in 1870

Postby admin » Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:54 am

The British had a military treay with Poland, the French with Czechoslovakia (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement ). When Poland got invaded, Britain declared war on Germany. Germany declared war on France and the USA before eithr could declare war on them. :)
I am however perhaps being a bit unfair, as the German annexation of Czechoslovakia was rather different, and of course earlier, than the German blitzkreig into Poland.

Ty, in referrence to the Treaty of Versailles, the reparation measures were very clearly primarily a French thing (they had lost the most soldiers, civilians and property after all). Britain and America were less interested in reparations and more interested in military restrictions on Germany, and of course the American public at the time were mostly concerned with returning to isolationism. In hindsight, Britain and France probably should have continued the war for a bit longer and crushed Germany beyond repair and shared it with the Russians and Poles.
Martial Challenge - (Won/Lost/Played) - 2/1/3
SCHOLA GLADIATORIA - http://www.swordfightlondon.com
HEMAC - http://www.hemac.org

"Trust in Allah, but tie up your camel."
User avatar
admin
Emperor
 
Posts: 27148
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:28 pm
Location: Guildford, Surrey, England.

Re: German invasion of Britain in 1870

Postby Ty N. » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:20 pm

admin wrote:...the American public at the time were mostly concerned with returning to isolationism.


Can't blame them. They had nothing to gain from helping Britain or France. Germany posed no threat to the U.S. at the time. Britain, France and Germany were all equally dick-headed going into the war. They created entangling alliances for their own perceived benefit, and they paid the price.

admin wrote:In hindsight, Britain and France probably should have continued the war for a bit longer and crushed Germany beyond repair and shared it with the Russians and Poles.


Not without the Americans' help, and the Americans feared Russia more than Germany.
Schola Forum - Undermining workplace productivity since 2006.

User avatar
Ty N.
News Hound
 
Posts: 5715
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:31 pm
Location: USA - Maryland - Metro D.C.

Re: German invasion of Britain in 1870

Postby admin » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:42 pm

It is not true that Germany posed no threat to the USA. They had already proposed to Mexico and Japan an alliance against the USA.... The Germans offered Mexico assistance in reclaiming Texas, New Mexico and Arizona. Look up the 'Zimmerman telegram'.

It was a shame for the American soldiers in WW1 that their commanders learned so little from the European experience and slaughtered so many thousands of them with outdated tactics.
Martial Challenge - (Won/Lost/Played) - 2/1/3
SCHOLA GLADIATORIA - http://www.swordfightlondon.com
HEMAC - http://www.hemac.org

"Trust in Allah, but tie up your camel."
User avatar
admin
Emperor
 
Posts: 27148
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:28 pm
Location: Guildford, Surrey, England.

Re: German invasion of Britain in 1870

Postby Ty N. » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:56 pm

admin wrote:The Germans offered Mexico assistance in reclaiming Texas, New Mexico and Arizona.


Who thinks Mexico didn't succeed?

¡Ay, caramba!
Schola Forum - Undermining workplace productivity since 2006.

User avatar
Ty N.
News Hound
 
Posts: 5715
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:31 pm
Location: USA - Maryland - Metro D.C.

Re: German invasion of Britain in 1870

Postby craftyfighter » Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:41 pm

admin wrote:It was a shame for the American soldiers in WW1 that their commanders learned so little from the European experience and slaughtered so many thousands of them with outdated tactics.


Agreed...however, the first US troops on the ground were given additional training by French forces before going to the front...apparently they forgot to mention the "don't charge machine guns over open ground" rule in their lessons. I guess it just slipped their minds :roll:
The Iron Door Collective
http://www.swordfightexeter.org/
"Weder krone noch kragen"
User avatar
craftyfighter
Brigadier
 
Posts: 1990
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:01 pm
Location: Exeter Free State...next to the Peoples Republic of Cornwall

Next

Return to Arms & Armour, History, Military History, Archaeology, Historical Art

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest