sabre options

[Abomination]

I've been toying with the idea of getting a sabre. The two easy choices are:

Hanwei Hutton - I don't really like these, - too light, horrid grip.

Cold steel 1796 - Too heavy & sharp.

Yeah I know the most cost effective would probably be to buy an original & blunt it. But I'm not sure I could bring myself to do that.

Are there any other options out there?

[craftyfighter]

I've been toying with the idea of getting a sabre. The two easy choices are:

Hanwei Hutton - I don't really like these, - too light, horrid grip.

Cold steel 1796 - Too heavy & sharp.

Yeah I know the most cost effective would probably be to buy an original & blunt it. But I'm not sure I could bring myself to do that.

Are there any other options out there?

how are you with DIY? you could get the Hanwei and rebuild the hilt I suppose

[Carletto]

Hi Nigel, the grip problem with the hutton hanwei is easy to solve: use tape and then tennis gripper over it. I'm working on the hilt to take away unnecessary bits.
I have to say, though, that I wish they kept the same blade section of forte and medio into the debole (which is really thin) and that, although classed as blunt, it gutted my rubber barrel pell 5 minutes ago. Also, the blunt edge is less blunt in some parts of the forte (!!) than in the middle of the blade.
When I have the money, I want an artisan made sabre like Andreas'.

[admin]

Well the first question has to be "what do you want it for?".
Hutton sabres are based on practice sabres (themselves based on Italian dueling sabres) from the end of the 19thC for use on foot. A 1796 is a light cavalry sabre used with a very different method either mounted or on foot. They are weapons separated by a whole century and one is specialised for dueling on foot whilst the other is a cavalry weapon. Historically, singlesticks were predominantly used for paired practice until about the 1890's when steel practice sabres became widespread (though singlesticks were still used until WW2).

If you want a generic steel sabre that can play against all other types of steel sword then I'd go for the Austrian ones that Andreas has (if possible to get them).

If you're not that bothered about steel or non-steel then I am working on the new nylon sabres with the Knight Shop at the moment.

[craftyfighter]

you could try these: http://www.fioredeiliberi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=15720, the price is not firm.

Otherwise I'd agree with Matt and hold out for the knightshop's new option.

[John H]

I’d ask what you are intending them for, single practices, backyard cutting or something that can you can train with and can handle some freeplay? We have a CS 1796 that we dulled down for some use but the first serious blow I parried with it made the blade turn in the grip and we had to ‘re-adjust’ it, it's still notched from that. I was also looking at the Windlass’s “American Revolution Saber” but I was figuring it would behave the same way as the CS blade if used.

Currently I am having Darkwood make me some sabres but I’ll fill you guys in when I get my hands on them and can play around with them. His stuff is meant to be used so I have good expectations for them.

[admin]

Hi John, did you ever get these from Darkwood?

To all the other sabruers here, what would you look for in a practice sabre?
Personally I think that something like a beefed-up and better-made version of the Hanwei Hutton would probably do the job. Imagine a 'Hutton' but with a slightly broader, slightly thicker, slightly longer blade, with a broader tang, a fatter grip and a guard made from steel sheet at least twice as thick (perhaps three or four times - this would help balance the heavier blade). What do you reckon?

[Carletto]

Basibally, an Hutton on steroids would do fine. I don't want it longer, I'd rather use something like a naval cutlass (short, that is). The hilt should be simpler (without all that steel behind the blade). The grip should be thicker and rounded on the back, broader at the base than at the top. Balance should be "appropriate": 6" - 7" from the hilt, not the duelling sabre's 4" from the hilt. The tang should be stronger than the spine of a bull. I would like stainless steel, if it can be had. Very important: weight must be distributed so that there ia more in the hand than around the hand.

[Colin F.]

Thicker grip, stronger, smaller guard, it is a little massive at the moment for me. Broader blade, maybe a little more curved?

Stronger tang, rounded blade edges. Folded over tip for safety?

EDIT: Off shooting now, so will post when I get back.

[admin]

This is all useful stuff guys, please carry on with the ideas if you have more.

[John H]

Thanks for the reminder, I did get them I’ll try to get pics up of them compared to a Hutton.

I think I was a bit ‘excited’ when I posting this as I wasn’t meaning Military Sabre with the Darkwood ones. They are actually Italian Dueling blades, so they are thinner and lighter than what we are wanting for a ‘military sabre.’ I had Scott make me two grips with knuckle bows instead of the larger hand protection, just my preference in learning defense. So what I have is a beautifully done nicely weighted dueling sabre put on a military sabre grip and guard. They have been a great trainer for a lighter version of the blade when you need to build the strength (which has been great since I’ve had to switch to lefty for the past few months and will be till January at least, and most of the people I am working with started with no ability to use a military weight for more than 5 min at a time.) The grips are the proper size to wrap your thumb around, no too thin like the Hutton and the weighting is correct for a dueling blade.

I did contact Scott about putting a curve in his broad sword or backsword blade and he said he is happy to. I haven’t gotten one yet but I do intend to do so when I am able. Scott is generally not interested in making a hilt or grip if you just want a shell, but if you challenge him and ask for something like the three ring French/American style he will probably do it, and he is very capable with a knuckle bow provided you don’t get to picky on the pummel. The drawback is each blade will probably run around 300-400 (US) depending on what you want him to do, so there may be cheaper options with regards to the grip.

http://www.darkwoodarmory.com/index.php ... 20a&page=2

I like Carletto’s description, I do prefer a bit longer and deeper curve. I like a knuckle bow rather than the larger hilts that fits the ‘withdrawn’ style I like better than the arm forward.

I also have to do a write up on some replacement Hutton Hilts so I’ll try to get both things done by Weds.

[admin]

Thanks for that John, looking forward to the pics.
I think most people want a fairly full guard for training purposes, and the problem with very curved blades is that you can't thrust in the way that most of the later 19thC manuals describe, but clearly there is some kind of market for the earlier styles of sabre, so something to bear in mind.

[Colin F.]

One aspect of the Hutton's I like is the ability to take it all apart. Gives it a nice customizable aspect to it.

Really, I'd love there to be a straight blade, slightly curved blade and a quite curved blade types of sabre blades, maybe asking too much I know, but I've always found curved blades more attractive.

Either way, my dream one would be the blunt equivalent of a 1796 LC or the light company infantry versions of the sword.

That would be awesome!

[Magnus Hagelberg]

have you people ever spoken to slovakians? they are ussualy interested in doing what you ask for.

http://fabri-armorum.com/english/?id=savle.php

they have some sabres up there.. but sure if it's in the range you are after.

[John H]

Here's a few toys I'll get stats tomorrow night, I'll have time then.

Bottom is the Darkwood, top is the control blade, an Austrian version.


A waster that the Boss had floating around

Just cuz she's pretty!


Magnus thanks for the link, options are always good. Anyone have experience with any of their blades.

[admin]

Either way, my dream one would be the blunt equivalent of a 1796 LC or the light company infantry versions of the sword.

Yes, I think there is a market for a more curved one.

[admin]

Thanks for that John. How much broader would you make the blade and still expect it to be reasonably safe to hit people with? (without having to pull the blows too much)

[John H]

For the Darkwood, it weighs 1lb 6oz with a CoB at 4 ½ inches
The Hutton – 1lb 8oz CoB 5 ½ inches
The Hutton w/ replacement hilt – 1lb 11oz CoB 4 ¾ inches
The Austrian - 2lb4oz CoB 7 Inches

Thanks for that John. How much broader would you make the blade and still expect it to be reasonably safe to hit people with? (without having to pull the blows too much)

Well that is the question, and the reason I rarely swing the CS at people with much force at all… Personally I will aim to train at the full weight and expect control. I know this is just not a reality for a tournament situation with people seeing red so this is the main question. ½ inch is easy I don’t think we will have much issue on that, I would say ¾ should also be no issue. I would like to get over 1 inch but I think I’ll need to get hit a bit by those before I recommend going at that width. Someone at the Salle’ is going to have fun.

Going through the hits I have taken…and I’m not remembering many, is that good?
Hanwei Basket-Hilt* in the leg that left a bruise for three weeks, this was only with the force created after a parry (parried and he bounced it). It didn’t hurt that much at impact but the bruise was pretty. Not sure a full force to the arm will be appreciated, I’ll find out…sooner or later.

Hutton - things are too short to hit me with! I can’t say I have taken a full force…I’ll find out.

Hanwei Side Sword – I remember a ¾ force to the shoulder I shrugged off this was not on the gorget. Also one to the arm, shrugged off.

Problem on all those are thrusts, things be too pointy.

The Darkwood side swords are no issues for cut or thrust but I don’t think they are more than ½-3/4 at the point.

I’ll do some research and let you know.

*Hanwei’s Basket-Hilt – 2lb CoB 5 inch @3/4inch wide at tip