Training equipment of the 2nd Sikhs, 1891

[Jonathan]

I am currently investigating these basket hilts and possible reasons why the Khyber Rifles would use them. The regiment also has (had?) bagpipers.

[Jonathan]

I also wanted to add that the soldiers with basket hilts are not Sikh, but Afridi tribesmen from the North West Frontier.

[Thearos]

The man on the right end even has the big woollen tassel on the pommel

[Jonathan]

I have posted a query about the Scottish connection at the Victorian Wars Forum:

http://victorianwars.com/viewtopic.php? ... 314#p30314

[Lyceum]

I'm sure I've read references to the Sikhs (will try and remember where) having close ties and huge amounts of respect for the highlanders, so using the highlanders swords doesn't seem that strange to me.

Well in general the Brits (indiscriminately here) were considered to be good at fighting with swords, a rare compliment and perhaps bizarre since you'd think it would go to the French or something.

I think the eclecticism of equipment in these photos is REALLY interesting given the regimental context too.

[swordflasher]

I don't think the Sikhs would consider wearing would wear fencing masks over a turban. I'd understood they would count as a 'hat'.

[admin]

Well, evidence suggests that these Sikhs did wearing bayonet fencing helmets, because they are right there, along with the fencing bayonets. I would imagine that they would have to take the turban off to get the helmet on though.

[VincentC]

Well, evidence suggests that these Sikhs did wearing bayonet fencing helmets, because they are right there, along with the fencing bayonets. I would imagine that they would have to take the turban off to get the helmet on though.

It looks like those helmets have an open top, and what appears to be straps on the back. That suggests they could be tightened around the back, meaning the Sikhs would not actually have to take off their turbans.

I'm basing my observation of the open top on the second mask from the right. What appears to be straps or something akin to the back head support of a modern leon paul fencing mask is on the leftmost and rightmost.

[Ronin]

Back to the helmets, the Sikhs with full beards and uncut cut hair would definately not take their turban off to wear the helmets, the turban is a article of faith and there to protect the uncut hair..

But not all Sikhs practise this and do cut their hair (myself included)...they would have no problems with wearing the helmets..

Also I'm not sure that all the men in the photo were Sikhs, at that time Sikhs were a minority in the Punjabi with Muslim and Hindus being the majority. This changed when partitioned in 1947...I'm sure there were regimets that were just Sikhs only but I bet with the demographics at that time most were mixed...

I think Jonathan said earlier that the men were Afridi tribesmen from the North West Frontier...

Oh here's a video of a Gatka competition were the helemets are being worn over the turban...Although these are used to protect the face ot the head, the turban does that..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bUtQrBeYHw

[the_last_alive]

Back to the helmets, the Sikhs with full beards and uncut cut hair would definately not take their turban off to wear the helmets, the turban is a article of faith and there to protect the uncut hair..

But not all Sikhs practise this and do cut their hair (myself included)...they would have no problems with wearing the helmets..

Also I'm not sure that all the men in the photo were Sikhs, at that time Sikhs were a minority in the Punjabi with Muslim and Hindus being the majority. This changed when partitioned in 1947...I'm sure there were regimets that were just Sikhs only but I bet with the demographics at that time most were mixed...

I think Jonathan said earlier that the men were Afridi tribesmen from the North West Frontier...

Oh here's a video of a Gatka competition were the helemets are being worn over the turban...Although these are used to protect the face ot the head, the turban does that..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bUtQrBeYHw

I'm fairly certain my readings on the Mutiny back that up, most units were of mixed faith (unless I'm miss remembering...).

Also, the turban protecting the head is backed up by period memoirs, journals etc as silk turbans stop sword cuts.

[Jonathan]

Right now I cannot find a reference to the composition of the 2nd Sikhs inthe 1890s, but here is a bit from Wikipedia on the composition in 1914:

52nd Sikhs (Frontier Force)

Subsequent to the reforms brought about in the Indian Army by Lord Kitchener in 1903, the regiment's designation was changed to 52nd Sikhs (Frontier Force). In 1914, the regiment's class composition was three companies of Dogras, two each of Pathans and Sikhs, and one of Punjabi Muslims. During First World War, the regiment joined the 18th Indian Division in Mesopotamia in 1917 and fought in the Battle of Sharqat. It moved to Kurdistan in 1919 and took part in suppressing the Iraqi Revolt of 1920.