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Re: Is HEMA a sport?

PostPosted: 06 Nov 2014 16:09
by Max C.
Well, I can see the argument there and I somehow agree. But this is only true for modern, commercialized, sports. What about all the other sports that are played in different settings, right down to family and friends?


That would be games. Maybe sports if they are really following the official rules.

Re: Is HEMA a sport?

PostPosted: 06 Nov 2014 16:27
by Dave B
Max C. wrote:That means that you can use the word sport as you wish, even use the dictionnary version if you like. But understand that most sport is a modern phenomenon which functions in its own frame.


It's generally accepted in English (unlike French) that a word means whatever most people think it means. Asserting this isn't 'appeal to definition fallacy', which takes the form:

The dictionary definition of X does not mention Y.
Therefore, Y must not be part of X.

It means that because a word is held to mean one thing, it doesn't mean that the thing defined by the word cannot have other properties as well. Anyway, enough of the semantics.

I still think that the definitions you've used is an artificial one, used to point out how sports have changed over time, with the increased use of rulesets. The word 'Sport' to mean a physical pastime for carried out for pleasure has been in use since the 16thC, and still generally means that now.

Re: Is HEMA a sport?

PostPosted: 06 Nov 2014 16:45
by Max C.
I don't see how that's different in French. Anyway, that's the common understanding of the word, but it does not reflect all the complexity behind the term, which is what I was trying to highlight in the article. Again people are free to call HEMA tournaments whatever they like, but from my point of view they do not share all the characteristics of a sport as they were put forward by many sociologists, but I surely think its on its way there.

But again call them whatever you like, I'm not here to argue about the common definition of sport, I'm here to argue about the deeper concept.

Re: Is HEMA a sport?

PostPosted: 06 Nov 2014 17:26
by MEversbergII
MugginsToadwort wrote:However, I met some people I'd rather not meet, fight or have my students fight, and that does worry me for the future.


Could you elaborate?

M.

Re: Is HEMA a sport?

PostPosted: 06 Nov 2014 19:13
by Dave B
Max C. wrote:I don't see how that's different in French.


As I understand it, In France the academie fraincaise decide what words are officially part of the french language and what they should mean, then dictionaries reflect this. Whilst they haven't had any legal standing for a long time it's still sort of generally accepted that words mean what the academics at the academie say they do.

In england it's generally accepted (and indeed the law takes this view in interpretation of contracts etc) that words mean what the majority thinks they do, and that if peoples use of a word changes then they are right and the dictionary has to keep up.

I may not have the details exactly right, but my sister is an academic who's specialism involves french literature and who's taught at the ENS, and she sees it as a fairly key philosophical difference between the english and french languages. Perhaps a french person would like to correct me though.

Anyway, I feel we have to agree to differ. I feel that a simple question like 'Is HEMA a sport' should use the common definitions of words. In order to disqualify on the grounds that some sociologists use a more specialised definition of sport the question should be 'Would a sociologist call HEMA a sport' !

Re: Is HEMA a sport?

PostPosted: 06 Nov 2014 22:59
by Max C.
Dave.

But again call them whatever you like, I'm not here to argue about the common definition of sport, I'm here to argue about the deeper concept.


:)