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IFHEMA

Postby Ulrich von L...n » 10 Feb 2014 16:13

From HEMA News:
New International HEMA Federation (IFHEMA) announced at Dreynevent
February 10, 2014
by Meg Floyd

At Dreynevent in Austria this weekend, the formation of a new international federation of nine countries, , the International Federation of Historical European Martial Arts, was announced. Watch the video below to see the announcement as it happened. Founding countries include Austria (OHFH), Belgium (BHEMAF), France (FFAHME), Hungary (MGH), Poland (FEDER), Slovakia (FEBUS), Spain (FEEH), and Switzerland (FSAMHE).

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... OzVtz2IlaA

PS:
A bit earlier this video has been posted also at the largest Hungarian MA forum, also at several FB pages.
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Re: IFHEMA

Postby admin » 10 Feb 2014 20:13

It would be nice if it were possible to read some manifesto or other information about IFHEMA.
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Re: IFHEMA

Postby Michael Chidester » 10 Feb 2014 20:50

I would also like to see some more informative statement. Presumably this has been in the works for a while, did no one think to draft a press release?
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Re: IFHEMA

Postby admin » 10 Feb 2014 20:57

I know it has been discussed for at least 2 years now.
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Re: IFHEMA

Postby MugginsToadwort » 10 Feb 2014 21:18

I can understand that some national associations need an international 'overbody', but there is so little info about this IFHEMA, it feels like something is being hidden. A clear constitution or declaration should be easy to promulgate.
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Re: IFHEMA

Postby Michael Chidester » 10 Feb 2014 23:07

It's definitely a conspiracy of some sort, I'm just unclear on exactly what.
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Re: IFHEMA

Postby Rob » 11 Feb 2014 00:04

Well, this was put on the AMEK site. I would say that given the representatives involved I doubt there is anything more sinister than promoting co-operation and research:

'Yesterday February the 7th the International Federation of Historical European Martial Arts (IFHEMA) has been founded. The founding document has been signed by the delegates of the national HEMA federations of 9 European countries in Vienna, exactly the same number as when the FIE was founded in 1913.

These are the founding countries :

BHEMAF Belgium (associate Karin Verelst )
ERDF Poland (associate Anna Stepien )
FEEH Spain (delegate Eugenio Garcia Salmon )
FFAMHE France (delegate Fabrice Cognot )
HEMAFS Slovenia (delegate Roman Vucajnk )
FEBUS Slovakia (delegate Martin Fabian)
MHS Hungary (delegate Matyas Miskolczi )
OFHF Austria (delegate Harry Winter)
SWISS HEMA Switzerland (delegate Daniel Jaquet )

Federations of four other countries: N.N. (Germany), FPEH (Portugal), HEFFAC (The Netherlands) and SVHEMAF (Sweden) have failed to provide documentation on time but will be supported in the coming weeks.

This is a big historic step for HEMA. The expectation is that IFHEMA will have the strength and enthusiasm of many to open a new path, governed from within the HEMA community, which should help to establish a common international basis of research and outreach as well as facilitating the efforts within the federation when facing both international and national institutions.'
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Re: IFHEMA

Postby Michael Chidester » 11 Feb 2014 00:08

Doesn't Spain, in typical Spanish fashion, have three distinct HEMA federations of roughly the same size, all of which claim to be the official national one? How do the other two feel about FEEH speaking for them?
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Re: IFHEMA

Postby Michael Chidester » 11 Feb 2014 00:10

Also, why did not BFHS, the oldest of the European federations, send a delegate?
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Re: IFHEMA

Postby Rob » 11 Feb 2014 00:19

I dont know. I think AEEA is now on equitable terms with FEEH. However, I dont know entirely for what they are speaking. Nevertheless as said, the 'personalities' involved strike me, at the least, as individuals interested in cooperation regarding research. I have, however, asked Daniel if more details - a mission statement- is or will be available.

It should be noted, I'm just passing on the little I know and am neither for nor against this as I am not altogether sure what is intended with this.

As to the BFHS, I do not know, though I do not believe that it has a full representation of British Clubs. I think France and Belgium has consensus, but again I am not entirely sure on this.
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Re: IFHEMA

Postby Eugenio » 13 Feb 2014 13:53

Seems wath fundation of IFHEMA not have liked to everyone in HEMA world.

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Re: IFHEMA

Postby admin » 13 Feb 2014 14:05

Michael Chidester wrote:Also, why did not BFHS, the oldest of the European federations, send a delegate?


The BFHS, despite being the oldest 'national' federation of historical fencing clubs, was not contacted at any point by IFHEMA.

This has been noted as very strange, but I believe the real reason is that in most/all of the founding countries there were concerns about the sport fencing federations making aggressive moves towards historical fencing - a situation which has not so far arisen in Britain. Therefore it seems that the IFHEMA founding countries wanted to push ahead as quickly as possible with founding the legal entity and worry about getting more people on board afterwards.

This was Roman Vucajnk's response to my query:

The UK, BFHS or any other have not been excluded or blanked out.
If you listen to Daniel Jaquet's words, you cannot miss his invitation to everybody with a common interest with IFHEMA goals to work with IFHEMA.

For a decade, a group of individuals tried to push forward the idea of an international HEMA federation. Some communities had stronger reasons for it, and somewhere there was no interest for something like that.
Some people decided to wait and see what happens.
Fair enough.
A group of people, however, took the matter further and brought it to a Constitutive Assembly of IFHEMA.

IFHEMA can now, as an institution, approach every HEMA federation it knows of and will invite each with all respect to find a common ground to work on.
And that shall be done before the General Assembly in December.

BFHS is a well known and respected organisation with a rich tradition of developing the British HEMA communities and with vast experience which can significantly assist the HEMA communities worldwide.
There is no doubt about that nor did anyone even hint in such direction.
IFHEMA will approach BFHS in order to work together for a better HEMA future.

My personal note:
there have been British individuals present in 2009 at an informal meeting in Vienna. Why British individuals haven't found it interesting to join working groups whose activities resulted in establishing IFHEMA, I do not know and it's not being taken as a sign of impoliteness or in any way as a negative occurrence.

I agree with you that the manifesto, By-laws and all information should have already been prepared. There were some glitches that needed sorting out, but due to various reasons we couldn't postpone the Constitutive Assembly in Vienna.
I sincerely hope that it is only a matter of few more days before you can have all the documents on IFHEMA at your disposal.

Let me conclude this note with expressing my hope that the IFHEMA message will get across:
it's not about governing national HEMA federations or imposing policies or what-have-you.
IFHEMA is about promoting and protecting the autonomy of HEMA activities in regard to other martial arts and sports, and assisting HEMA communities to do what they already do, but with some additional international resources.
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Re: IFHEMA

Postby tabiris » 16 Feb 2014 19:52

https://www.facebook.com/notes/ifhema/statement-on-the-constituting-international-federation-of-hema-ifhema/265302703636688

IFHEMA mission statement. It would seem there are a few more technical difficulties, so for now they put it on FB.
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Re: IFHEMA

Postby Cutlery Penguin » 17 Feb 2014 00:15

So it rules out wrestling, lpr era pugilism, military sabre from being HEMA? Interesting decision.
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Re: IFHEMA

Postby tabiris » 17 Feb 2014 00:56

Cutlery Penguin wrote:So it rules out wrestling, lpr era pugilism, military sabre from being HEMA? Interesting decision.


I am unsure where you got that conclusion.
HEMA is to be considered separately from modern combat sports such as fencing, wrestling, boxing, savate and similar, since most of the modern sports are based on regulations created from the late nineteenth century onward.


This perhaps? Ringen, pugilism and military sabre can hardly be considered modern sports, though. And the very mention of wrestling and boxing seems indicative of including ringen and classical pugilism to HEMA. A distinction does need to be made, however, otherwise bureaucratic problems might emerge...
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Re: IFHEMA

Postby Cutlery Penguin » 18 Feb 2014 10:46

tabiris wrote:
Cutlery Penguin wrote:So it rules out wrestling, lpr era pugilism, military sabre from being HEMA? Interesting decision.


I am unsure where you got that conclusion.
HEMA is to be considered separately from modern combat sports such as fencing, wrestling, boxing, savate and similar, since most of the modern sports are based on regulations created from the late nineteenth century onward.


This perhaps? Ringen, pugilism and military sabre can hardly be considered modern sports, though. And the very mention of wrestling and boxing seems indicative of including ringen and classical pugilism to HEMA. A distinction does need to be made, however, otherwise bureaucratic problems might emerge...


It is irrelevant what you "consider" modern sports if we have a specific definition. It clearly states "based on regulations created from the late nineteenth century onward." Waite was 1880, Hutton 1889, and so on. Clearly late nineteenth century. Also the lpr rules for pugilism were still being used in the second half of the nineteenth century. And as to wrestling it is quite clear that if it has an extant lineage with competition then it doesn't count. It makes no attempt to differentiate freestyle wrestling from historical styles, just calls them *wrestling".

So I'd say its pretty clear where I get that impression. From the very specific words they use.
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Re: IFHEMA

Postby tabiris » 18 Feb 2014 18:39

Cutlery Penguin wrote:
tabiris wrote:
Cutlery Penguin wrote:So it rules out wrestling, lpr era pugilism, military sabre from being HEMA? Interesting decision.


I am unsure where you got that conclusion.
HEMA is to be considered separately from modern combat sports such as fencing, wrestling, boxing, savate and similar, since most of the modern sports are based on regulations created from the late nineteenth century onward.


This perhaps? Ringen, pugilism and military sabre can hardly be considered modern sports, though. And the very mention of wrestling and boxing seems indicative of including ringen and classical pugilism to HEMA. A distinction does need to be made, however, otherwise bureaucratic problems might emerge...


It is irrelevant what you "consider" modern sports if we have a specific definition. It clearly states "based on regulations created from the late nineteenth century onward." Waite was 1880, Hutton 1889, and so on. Clearly late nineteenth century. Also the lpr rules for pugilism were still being used in the second half of the nineteenth century. And as to wrestling it is quite clear that if it has an extant lineage with competition then it doesn't count. It makes no attempt to differentiate freestyle wrestling from historical styles, just calls them *wrestling".

So I'd say its pretty clear where I get that impression. From the very specific words they use.


No, it clearly states "modern sports ... based on regulations created from the nineteenth century onwards." Quite an important distinction there.

Anyway, here's a new statement from the IFHEMA website:

One of the aims of IFHEMA is to protect the autonomy of HEMA activities.
Practice, training and competition are among those which demand a special consideration in regard to communicating and co-operating with existent martial arts and martial (or combat) sports.

Modern competitive sports with one-on-one combat - fencing, wrestling, boxing, Savate, and similar -are respected as combat sports in their own right and not as part of HEMA activities, as they are based on sport regulations, which have developed from the late nineteenth century onward into their current form, whereas the practice and study of HEMA still draw from primary historical martial sources; some of them date as early as the early twentieth century.

“Traditional” competitive activities such as Alpine wrestling or cane fighting, which are based on modern regulations, are also considered sport activities in their own right, even if their practices reflect their original forms.

This does not mean that historical evolution and heritage of modern combat sports are not recognized and respected.
However, IFHEMA adopts a stance that even though HEMA and modern combat sports share the same origin, they have branched out from one another into separate autonomous activities.

Due to historical reasons, several martial arts within HEMA may share the same designation with particular modern combat sports - wrestling, fencing, boxing, stick fighting, if we mention but a few.
In order to avoid misunderstanding, IFHEMA pays particular attention to distinguish between them.

Historical self-defence and historical military aspects of combat within European martial heritage – among them fighting with various types of blades, hand-to-hand combat, combat on horseback – are considered a part of HEMA.

If or when HEMA communities identify their need to develop competition elements of their HEMA activities, as well as their practice and training, IFHEMA will need to provide an independent international platform for that development, as well as strive to secure resources.
This includes developing and training of judges, establishing rule sets, co-operating with equipment manufacturers and assisting organizers of events.


So pugilism and sabre most definitely are included.
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Re: IFHEMA

Postby Michael Chidester » 18 Feb 2014 18:56

It's a problem every HEMA federation is going to have to grapple with at some point--the fact that "HEMA" doesn't exist as a discreet entity, but rather as a host of different things that vaguely share a similar methodology. It's sort of like trying to organize a federation for "activities involving a ball" or "sports with referees".
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Postby Ulrich von L...n » 04 Mar 2014 08:15

IFHEMA's official site has been launched:
http://hemanews.com/2014/03/02/follow-u ... l-website/
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Postby Ulrich von L...n » 04 Mar 2014 08:21

New HEMA umbrella organization forming in Germany

See: http://hemanews.com/2014/03/02/new-hema ... n-germany/

The most interesting part (for me):
The representing clubs Ochs, Hammaborg, Zornhau, Bloßfechter zu Chemnitz and Schwertfechten Nordhessen call together all clubs, groups, associations and individuals with interests in the Historical European Martial Arts to join the founding community... The representing clubs offer numerous martial arts based on this definition like fencing with the long sword, the large two-handed sword, sword and buckler, combat grappling, military sabre, staff fighting and many more

I do hope that sooner or later something similar will be formed in Hungary.
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