Leather safety glove design

[Thallian]

http://www.ask-viking.dk/?page_id=134

I'm currently trying to re-invent the wheel (again) in my never-ending quest for a pair of sparring gloves I'm happy with. I have tried lacrosse gloves (too flimsy/little protection), plate mittens (useless for Lichtenhauer-style thumb work) and maille-backed sheepskin mittens (too much ouch on the thumb).

Then I found this design on Deviantart. A thick leather shell stitched onto a regular leather glove, reinforced with additional leather plates that could be hardened (for example by saturating them with acrylic resin).

Please discuss.

[Bulot]

Pretty little things...
But the ususal lack of protection on the side/top of the fingers, and there is nothing on the wrist.

[Jose_Pereira]

The original pattern supposedly has something around the wrist:

[Thallian]

I dare say that adding a more substantial wrist plate is not the issue. Cover for the side of the fingers might be.

One way to get around this might be to cut the flexible backing so it had little 'tabs' which curve around the outside of the index finger. I'll see if I can produce a drawing. Perhaps that little piece labeled with a '?' in the blueprints serves a similar purpose?

I might also be inclined to glue a layer of padding underneath the backing, ideally something thin with good shock resistance. EVA foam might be to bulky but what about sillicone gel? The type found in sports insoles, spongey yet firm. Or a neoprene mouse mat.

[admin]

They look pretty good, with some small changes. The problem with things like this made out of leather is that they tend to be very stiff and/or very expensive. They don't need to be made out of leather and leather is a very expensive material these days (in Europe anyway).

I'm still holding out for someone to give a serious try to the Victorian solution:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=13525

Steel Mastery have got close to what is shown in the Maximillian woodcuts:
http://steel-mastery.com/en/padded-armo ... nd-mittens

Look on the floor... one of the only representations of the padded gloves that were actually used in the 15th century -

[Jose_Pereira]

Neoprene should be a very good padding under the leather.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3mm-thick-neo ... 27c3113769

The good thing about leather is that it gives up with time and becomes softer where it matters. This mught be a nice DIY project

[craftyfighter]

They look pretty good, with some small changes. The problem with things like this made out of leather is that they tend to be very stiff and/or very expensive. They don't need to be made out of leather and leather is a very expensive material these days (in Europe anyway).

I'm still holding out for someone to give a serious try to the Victorian solution:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=13525

Steel Mastery have got close to what is shown in the Maximillian woodcuts:
http://steel-mastery.com/en/padded-armo ... nd-mittens

Look on the floor... one of the only representations of the padded gloves that were actually used in the 15th century -

What, like these?
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150413435484524&set=a.10150359690179524.412631.652539523&type=3&theater

[Magnus Hagelberg]

would think that they look 3 fingered. material is annybodys guess -cloth? mesh?

[Stevie T]

would think that they look 3 fingered. material is annybodys guess -cloth? mesh?

Te one on the left looks to have have thumb, index finger and then mitten.

The one on the right looks more like a shepherds glove like these



Difficult to even guess what material Matt's example are made from.

[Mink]

I have a reproduction of the illustration Matt posted in a book, here is a close-up:


This appears to be a colored version of plate 45 of Der Weiß Kunig, so the color may not be representative of the actual material... Both gloves are three-fingered. It's also interesting to note that they seem to be associated with messers and not longswords. I always thought they looked like a coat-of-plate but this is probably the influence of the color, could be a quilted padding as well I suppose.

Regards,

[Ivan]

A three-fingered glove might actually be an excellent compromise between fingered and mitten gloves, since the grip strength tends to transition between the index and middle finger an the other two in pairs during strikes.

[admin]

Not to mention that they would be fair easier/cheaper to make.

Johann, do you use yours for regular sparring? In your vids I don't remember them - if you don't, how come?

[Thallian]

Oh! These are ever so interesting!

They remind me an awful lot of lacrosse gloves. I would think that they might represent quilted defenses, probably constructed from several layers of something rather than being stuffed.

It's a great idea which worked equally well for the Victorians, it seems. They are quite labour intensive to produce, mind, so as a craftsman I'm still leaning more towards padded leather, which is a lot more fun to work with.

On a side note, the gloves I initially posted could be made equally well in rubber and plastic. They wouldn't wear as well though and would be harder to fix and also make, unless someone had a rig specifically for heat-forming the plastic parts involved.

I quite like the idea of using neoprene as padding though. Hmm...

[craftyfighter]

Not to mention that they would be fair easier/cheaper to make.

Johann, do you use yours for regular sparring? In your vids I don't remember them - if you don't, how come?

I do infact use for regular sparring (usually longsword or sabre)...I haven't used them recently as I've switched my focus to sword & buckler and for that they are too bulky.

[admin]

So they are working for you better than the lacrosse type gloves? If so, that's good news!

[craftyfighter]

better than lacrosse gloves....yes, but only just.

[Stevie T]

better than lacrosse gloves....yes, but only just.

A heavier duty outer fabric would probably make a significant difference. Did you quilt or stuff the padding?

Matt have you a collection of decent images of the gloves, reckon I could probably make some pretty easily with enough evidence.

[Magnus L]

I think we have to use very sophisticated padding to make the gloves useful for e.g. longsword. Even if they used padded gloves back in the days we do not know about the injuries. I might be hallucinating, but I seem to remember longsword being forbidden in some large tournament due to the hand damages involved. If that is right that indicates that they did not have enough hand protection available and that we might look at their equipment for ideas, but not as a good solution.

I still think the way to go is combining a hard outer shell with a good padding underneath. The challenge is to not make it too bulky, but that goes for gloves with only padding as well. But the three-finger solution is probably good - that makes it possible to use more padding and/or hard shell.

I hope I am wrong, though. All new glove alternatives are interesting.

[Alex B]

I might be hallucinating, but I seem to remember longsword being forbidden in some large tournament due to the hand damages involved.

Hutton claims that Francis I refused to allow longswords in the tournaments at the Field of the Cloth of Gold on the basis that there were no gauntlets that could protect against it.

[KeithFarrell]

I might be hallucinating, but I seem to remember longsword being forbidden in some large tournament due to the hand damages involved.

Hutton claims that Francis I refused to allow longswords in the tournaments at the Field of the Cloth of Gold on the basis that there were no gauntlets that could protect against it.

Maybe that's what Hutton said in his book, but Matt posted up an excerpt from a book chronicling the letters and papers of Henry VIII covering the issue:

"The two-handed sword is left out, as it seems a dangerous weapon, and few gauntlets would stand the heavy strokes to which they would be exposed. It is left, however, to the challengers' pleasure to choose the two-handed sword or the other."

'Henry VIII: May 1520, 2-15', Letters and Papers, Foreign and Domestic, Henry VIII: 1519-1523, Volume 3 (1867), pp. 274-285.

In which book did Hutton make his assertion? I would be interested to see the degree of corruption between the original letter and Hutton's work, and the degree of corruption between Hutton's work and modern perceptions and half-rememberedness of what he wrote...