Plastic sparring gloves - again

[Bladerunner]

I was working on plastic gloves for some time. The final design isn't finished yet, but I have a few prototype pics and would like to know your opinion.

The back of the hand and thumb metacarpal plates are basically the final design. Two piece construction with flexible joint (the stitching you see has a strip of leather underneath) allows for more mobility of the thumb.

The thumb itself is first attempt. It will be a bit deeper and made in two pieces if possible.

Fingers (sorry there is only one at the moment) in three pieces, overlapping on the knuckles, full mobility. The fingertip plate is deeper to create half closed thimble. I spent a lot of time moulding proper closed thimbles only to find out that after a good whack they sooner or later crack from material stress (tested rest on a hard surfacesimulating the fingertip positioned between the hilt and the hitting blade). This isnt so nice but allows the Nylon to retain its toughness. Ideally the tips would be made in stainless steel.
On index and the last finger (pinkie is it called?) the outsides of the lames will be longer and curved downside creating some protection for the sides of the fingers.

The cuff is not visible on the pics, it's under the leather. It's tight fitting and joint elastically with the hand plate. Lenght of it undecided yet. If tweaked right will allow for good mobility of the wrist without the bulk of hourglass gauntlets.

Material:
Nylon6, it comes shiny and I didn't bother to matt it in the prototype so there is a lot of scratches visible. 2mm for fingers and 3mm for back of hand and thumb.
Some leather for joining lames and plates (I plan to replace most of stitching with rivets) and on the cuff joint.
3mm EVA padding. Not the best. Plan to replace with high performance foam or gel of the same thickness.

The overall thickness is between 5-6mm plus glove reducing the bulk. They are roughly the size of well fitting steel gauntlets. Weight is rather small, I don't have kitchen scales to check properly. Should not be a problem though.

Any input on the project would be appreciated. Now images.

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=5 ... 0912940609

[Andreas Engström]

I would be very interested in this, but the link doesn't work for me. I just get to the facebook starting page.

-Andreas

[Hindmost]

I would be very interested in this, but the link doesn't work for me. I just get to the facebook starting page.

Same here.

[Bladerunner]

Link edited. Should be working now. The old one somehow worked on my computer when I checked. Must have Gremlins.

New link again:

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=5 ... 0912940609

[Hindmost]

Absolutely lovely. How soon can I order a prototype?

I'd be willing to be an objective external tester at absolutley no added cost to your project. I'm quite awful at this sword fighting business so get many hand hits and practice quite often, so I'm your ideal test subject.

Kidding aside, it looks exactly like what I'd like to make if I knew more about working with harder materials (or purchase if it were commercially available and juuust under the current price of Ensifer/Wilhelm Schütz offerings )

I'd like to see what you suggest for the index and pinkie finger, as I think you might need a wider 'side' section on the proximal to intermediate phalange 'towards the hilt' on the pommel hand, but maybe the reverse on the guard hand - wider cover on the little finger 'towards the pommel' but the index itself on that hand could do with the same design as in the middle and ring fingers. Then again asymmetrical designs are maybe a bit of nonsense and not particularly practical from a production point of view.

[craftyfighter]

nice work Bladerunner...isn't it lovely how some classic designs are simply the best for the task at hand. I look forward to following the progress on these.

[Bladerunner]

Hindmost, I'd like to keep them symmetrical (I mean that the left gauntlet will be the mirror image of the right) aiming at equal protection from all sides. Index finger will be next. It's really very simple and I hope it'll work.

Crafty, thanks! It all started from my fail attempts on the DIY patterns and your Ikea chopping boards discovery. If it comes to design I simply took the most complicated Visby (no. 3) and gradually reduced number of plates to bare minimum alowing for mobility. Some SCA ideas are incorporated too.
Question: I plan to replace some of stitches with tubular leatherworking rivets. Will they be strong enough? In the past I used them with thick leather and sometimes to fix plate armor and helmets straps (yeah, I know its botching up) and they worked fine. I'm not sure about leather to plastic and repeated swordhits though.

[KeithFarrell]

It is still just going to the Facebook login screen. Is there any way to view this album for those of us who don't use Facebook?

[Bladerunner]

I tried to upload the photos on the forum but they are too large and it will not allow me to. I'm going out to pick up some new foam and when I'm back I'll try to create an account on the Photobucket or something. Sorry for that.

I hate Facebook personally. I only created account to see Norrlands wasters prototypes and never used it since then

[admin]

Looking really good.
What are your plans for producing them in the long term? Do you intent to make them yourself or try and outsource?

[Bladerunner]

If possible I'd like to make them myself and with time employ people to increase numbers. To much hassle and quality control problems with outsourcing. Problem is that I cannot see them being made effectively with even partial automatisation of process. A lot of handwork is involved and it is unlikely to find a factory willing to take the idea. It's too early for such speculations yet, however.

[admin]

It's tricky, because for the time they will take to produce they will end up being very expensive or not really making you a decent profit. The biggest problem holding back glove development at the moment is that what we need is very difficult to make cost effective.
I think the answer would be to get a HEMA glove that could also be used for other things, like lacrosse, made in bulk.

[Axel]

I think the answer would be to get a HEMA glove that could also be used for other things, like lacrosse, made in bulk.

We should talk to the stickfighting community, they also often (but not always) use alot of hodge podge equipment, something like the ensifer mittens should interest them aswell.

[Bladerunner]

I really like your enthusiasm, but it's not even finished yet. I will worry about manufacturing later.

I have the new foam now. Index finger will be done next.
For those hating Facebook I'll try to open Photobucket account as soon as I can.

Matt, the only thing sure at the moment is that finished gloves will be tested at SG1 if you don't mind. It's the closest club from where I live.

Update soon.

EDIT: Photobucket link.

http://s1085.photobucket.com/albums/j42 ... 20gloves1/

[admin]

That's fine with me

[Hindmost]

Bladerunner, have a look at the these:

http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=122741&sid=1472bde9c8ca49d860dfa941413c94b1



That sort of thing, in hard plastic and de-medievalised or un-SCAified or whatever would be great.

[Dithyrambus]

I have seen those particular gauntlets before and thought the same thing, something similar in articulated plastic would seem a perfect solution.

[Bladerunner]

I've seen these gauntlets. I'm making something similar. Thanks for interest though

There's something else bugging me. I started working with Nylon6 after bad experiences with Polypropylene.
It's a quite tricky material due to its water absorbtion and probably requires industrial drying to get consistent results while forming (see the Knightshop Pro Line thread). I was thinking about trying other stuff like Kydex, ABS or HDPE. Has anyone come across any of these and can tell something about its impact resistance and general characteristic? Ideally I want something as rigid as possible and not cracking when hit. Any hint would be useful before I take a plunge and buy a sample. I'm especially interested about your experiences with ABS and Kydex.

Progress update: index finger done, works well and protects the side. Started putting together final version. Slashed three fingers with a Stanley knife, expect delay before the stitches come off. Sorry

[craftyfighter]

I've seen these gauntlets. I'm making something similar. Thanks for interest though

There's something else bugging me. I started working with Nylon6 after bad experiences with Polypropylene.
It's a quite tricky material due to its water absorbtion and probably requires industrial drying to get consistent results while forming (see the Knightshop Pro Line thread). I was thinking about trying other stuff like Kydex, ABS or HDPE. Has anyone come across any of these and can tell something about its impact resistance and general characteristic? Ideally I want something as rigid as possible and not cracking when hit. Any hint would be useful before I take a plunge and buy a sample. I'm especially interested about your experiences with ABS and Kydex.

Progress update: index finger done, works well and protects the side. Started putting together final version. Slashed three fingers with a Stanley knife, expect delay before the stitches come off. Sorry

sorry to hear about you fingers mate, ouch and bummer.

that aside, I can't speak to the effectiveness of ABS and HDPE other than to say that they might work...maybe, dunno. Kydex however, is a proven winner: http://www.windrosearmoury.com/zc/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=56&zenid=aa79894f37d39a25d04da1dc0d150dcf

[admin]

Out of interest, what are people's objection to using those Egg gauntlets for nylon or steel longsword? They seem very expensive for what they are, but apart from the price, are there other reasons?