Boxing, Kicking in WMA

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Postby Angel S. » 21 Aug 2006 18:56

Paul wrote:Ungloved fists need a much smaller opening then gloved fists. And because the fists of the attacker are bigger with gloves, it's easier for the defender to hit them.


My gloves are not much bigger than my fist. I'm not using regular boxing gloves.
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Postby Paul » 21 Aug 2006 19:09

I see what you mean now. :)

Of course, such gloves don't offer the same protection as boxing gloves either. :wink:
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Postby Jeffrey Hull » 21 Aug 2006 19:35

Monster Zero wrote:I've been studying JKD for nearly 3 years now.

No one uses the JKD gloves Bruce designed anymore.

We use 2 main sets of gloves (Boxing Gloves and Bag Gloves) and for those that do grappling we also use MMA or Shooto gloves.

We've found over the years that specialized gloves work better than using one set that does everything, but none of it particularly well.


*Sigh* Call them what you like. The original design seems to have been his innovation, and the consequent modifications thereof are related to the ideas inherent to his original design. Like I tried to imply, one should use a variation which suits one.
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Re: JKD Gloves

Postby Jeffrey Hull » 21 Aug 2006 19:36

Sunay Angel S. wrote:Thanks you Jeffrey, I was using some like this..

Image


Yes, that is the sort of permutation I was talking about, those seem fine for multiple uses in your martial arts. Good luck with those, Angel,
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Postby Jeffrey Hull » 21 Aug 2006 19:40

Just to add:

Alina spoke of a vertically aligned fist. That is how we did it in wing chun.

It seems to make more sense than a horizonally aligned fist, if one is to fist-punch. At least in that art.

However, such still requires some toughening of the hands and arms to do it, to get used to it.
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Postby Monster Zero » 21 Aug 2006 19:43

Alignment of the fist during a punch dpends on the type of punch thrown and the biomechanics involved.
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Re: Punchy Punch-Punch

Postby Alina » 21 Aug 2006 19:43

Jeffrey Hull wrote:Just to add:

Alina spoke of a vertically aligned fist. That is how we did it in wing chun.

It seems to make more sense than a horizonally aligned fist, if one is to fist-punch. At least in that art.

However, such still requires some toughening of the hands and arms to do it, to get used to it.


Yeah, most kung fu styles utilize a vertically aligned fist - though there are other fists used as well. The problem with the wing chun punch is that without the rotation of the fist, it is harder to get the proper snap to the punch. If you train with it enough, you can manage it however. Also, the straight punch with vertical knuckles won't be as powerful as a cross in boxing because the turning of the arm allows you to put more shoulder into it in my opinion. Still, the vertical punch makes a great jab.
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Postby Monster Zero » 21 Aug 2006 20:40

Angel:

I'd suggest getting your own pair of gloves as it's not sanitary to share boxing equipment, and fungus can and does grow in them.

I use this stuff: http://www.thaiboxinggear.com/main.php? ... &cat_id=44

http://www.thaiboxinggear.com/main.php? ... itStart=12
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Postby Angel S. » 21 Aug 2006 21:34

Monster Zero wrote:Angel:

I'd suggest getting your own pair of gloves as it's not sanitary to share boxing equipment, and fungus can and does grow in them.

I use this stuff: http://www.thaiboxinggear.com/main.php? ... &cat_id=44

http://www.thaiboxinggear.com/main.php? ... itStart=12


I fight with men and we all know they're just one giant icky fungus anyway. I carry anti-bacterial stuff all the time. :D

Thanks for the link, yes I'll be getting my own gear.
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Postby Monster Zero » 21 Aug 2006 22:02

I'm glad.

Before you use the gear I suggest wiping down the inside with pure tea tree oil.

Also, be sure to dry them thoroughly before you put them away.

And for folks who think I'm full of it, I'll have to show you the scars all over my right forearm from a fungal infection I got from someone else who didn't take care of their equipment.

That fungus stuff not only affects you, but it affects others and can take YEARS to cure.
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Re: JKD Gloves

Postby Jon Barber » 22 Aug 2006 01:34

Sunay Angel S. wrote: Thanks you Jeffrey, I was using some like this..

Image


I've used somehing similar for a while now and been pleased with the results. I've never been a fan of bag gloves, but then I'm not a boxer; the leather Everlast speed bag ones I used to have were OK but a little bulky. These are a far step above the old school dipped foam bulky pieces-o-crap we used back in my full-contact tourney days.

The gojo ryu striking method Alina mentioned isn't bad but takes some training to get right and, if done badly and repetitively, can lead to both acute and chronic damage to your wrists and forearms (seen it a bunch of times).
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Re: JKD Gloves

Postby Alina » 22 Aug 2006 02:44

Jon Barber wrote:The gojo ryu striking method Alina mentioned isn't bad but takes some training to get right and, if done badly and repetitively, can lead to both acute and chronic damage to your wrists and forearms (seen it a bunch of times).


Hence the warning :lol:
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Postby J Marwood » 22 Aug 2006 10:08

I've got a number of recurring hand injuries from punches, which is why pretty much everything I do now is geared around open hand strikes. IMO the human hand is just not designed to be closed into a fist and smashed into hard things.
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Postby Paul » 22 Aug 2006 13:54

Agreed James.

This doesn't look like a bad solution for the gloves / light contact to head dilemma:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMjGQk-k2ZA
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Postby Jeff Gentry » 22 Aug 2006 15:28

J Marwood wrote:I've got a number of recurring hand injuries from punches, which is why pretty much everything I do now is geared around open hand strikes. IMO the human hand is just not designed to be closed into a fist and smashed into hard things.


James

I totaly agree, body shot's with a fist are not bad and can be very effective, I am not a fan of hitting the face with a closed fist though it is not all that hard to injure the hand wrist, I prefer to use open hand on the face.

Training to use the closed fist is a good idea though, ie bag, focus mitt's and such , it will help build strength in the wrist, hand and arm, I would also train using palm strike's and such.

Hand wrap's can also help to prevent hand and wrist injury in training also.


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Postby Carlo » 22 Aug 2006 17:15

James said: I've got a number of recurring hand injuries from punches, which is why pretty much everything I do now is geared around open hand strikes. IMO the human hand is just not designed to be closed into a fist and smashed into hard things.


It matches my experience, punches are for the ring, all of the puch based *martial arts* are as far from the real thing as an hawk from the moon.

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Postby Alina » 22 Aug 2006 17:16

I think a lot of the problem with fists is that people do it with a great deal of tension. I was taught to make a fist as though I were holding a roll of quarters in my hand. I find that the looser your fist is, the more it feels like you're smacking someone with a sack of lead shot. I haven't had any injuries at all from punches. However, I too prefer open hand strikes most of the time.
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Postby Jon Barber » 22 Aug 2006 19:42

Carlo wrote:
James said: I've got a number of recurring hand injuries from punches, which is why pretty much everything I do now is geared around open hand strikes. IMO the human hand is just not designed to be closed into a fist and smashed into hard things.


It matches my experience, punches are for the ring, all of the puch based *martial arts* are as far from the real thing as an hawk from the moon.


Well, I'd say that depends *g*. If you've trained sufficiently how to strike with a closed fist so the knuckles hit flat and are lined up properly with thw wrist, your muscles aren't tense, your fist isn't clenched, and you don't drive straight into a hard bony surface closed hand strikes can be very effective. I've seen more than one fight out in 'the world' end with a properly applied punch; in one case a beautiful right cross connected with the left eye orbit cutting deeply over the cheekbone, closing the eye almost entirely and breaking the nose resulting in tearing up of the other eye and a great deal of blood and difficulty breathing. Poor guy was down after that before he saw what took him there because he couldn't see or breathe.

But the amount of time spent training how and where to hit isn't as common in my experience as grappling and open-hand strikes, because those tend to be effectively trained more quickly. If I hadn't spent all that time doing gojo ryu all those *cough cough* years ago I wouldn't know how to do it properly.

And don't get me started on how quick a badly done backfist or hammerfist blow will muck up your wrist. :)

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Postby J Marwood » 22 Aug 2006 20:02

+1 Jon. I know of a number of very good punchers who are very effective. However, they have all had fairly nasty hand injuries (huge abcess from a shard of tooth anyone?).
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Postby Jon Barber » 22 Aug 2006 21:13

J Marwood wrote:+1 Jon. I know of a number of very good punchers who are very effective. However, they have all had fairly nasty hand injuries (huge abcess from a shard of tooth anyone?).


I didn't mean to say they didn't happen, which is why I would never rely solely on punching techniques - even my punch-oriented training didn't use only punches (but more of them, and strikes in general, than I like which is why I eventually moved away from it). But ruling them out as useful techniques when the opportunity presents itself isn't good either.

Of course, an important corollary to any study of martial arts that involves free play (from bouting with safety gear to fighting one's way out of a bar fight that your idiot friend started by not being able to keep their mouth shut *g*) is a good health care plan and medical treatment for any injury :D
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