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HEMA Body/Leg Protection

PostPosted: 03 Nov 2009 22:12
by Dangermouse
Stevie T wrote:Power Ranger or bad re-enactor.

Not exactly spoilt for choice are we.


Hello Chaps

Time to get some opinions from you with the above in mind, if I may? :D

First question is (to get the ball rolling) - Given that HEMA has so many diciplines (longsword, backsword, rapier, staff, dagger etc) and sparring tools (nylons, shinai, boffers etc) do we think that one type of armour can be developed that is suitable for a broad section of uses?

e.g. Fencing Jackets seem to be the norm for rapier work but do not offer much protection to the collar bone from a longsword strike. Would adding collar bone protection to a fencing jacket be too restrictive to somebody doing rapier work? Is the standard coaching jacket already "perfect" for rapier work? - thus going some way towards answering my first question....

PostPosted: 03 Nov 2009 22:21
by Motley
you are a glutton for punishment aren't you? :-)

imo defiantly not power ranger.

For me doing long sword some kind of padded gambeson inspired garment that is easy to clean and durable would be ideal. Even if it took some design ideas from modern fencing jackets, like side closing to prevent sword points slipping inside. Or something along those lines.

I like a nod towards an historical look while still being a modern piece of sports equipment.

Regards,

PostPosted: 03 Nov 2009 22:26
by Monster Zero
Hmmnnn... Perhaps making something like a Gambeson or Fencing Jacket but with that new G3 Material that is flexible, but hardens into armor on impact.

This way you would have a non-power ranger look, but with superior protection.

PostPosted: 04 Nov 2009 00:51
by Dangermouse
Motley wrote:you are a glutton for punishment aren't you? :-)

imo defiantly not power ranger.,


Ha ha I prefer the title "persistent little blighter"

I wouldn't say I was a power ranger neither but I'll wear whatever suits my needs most. Function over form.

I had a meeting with the design team this morning and they told me that much the same thing is going on in Polo at the moment. They have just developed a saddle made from carbon fibre etc with a little bit of leather for decoration - the "nod to the past" if you like (I think you came up with that phrase on another thread - I think they want to use it in their ad for the polo gear!).

PostPosted: 04 Nov 2009 00:53
by Dangermouse
Monster Zero wrote:Hmmnnn... Perhaps making something like a Gambeson or Fencing Jacket but with that new G3 Material that is flexible, but hardens into armor on impact.

This way you would have a non-power ranger look, but with superior protection.


Would "breathablilty" not be an issue? I think one of the main drawbacks with gambesons/coaching jackets is the lack of ventilation.

PostPosted: 04 Nov 2009 09:05
by admin
Monster Zero wrote:G3 Material


You mean D3o.

PostPosted: 04 Nov 2009 12:43
by Peter S
Dangermouse wrote:Would "breathablilty" not be an issue? I think one of the main drawbacks with gambesons/coaching jackets is the lack of ventilation.


With a gambeson, breathability shouldn't be an issue. I have an aketon (i.e. thin and designed to go under mail) from reenactment that I sometimes use for HEMA. It's only got a few layers of wool inside, with linen covering, but the linen wicks away sweat and it's surprisingly breathable. Wouldn't work with any synthetics, of course, and even wearing a tshirt underneath interferes with the wicking effect- cotton seems to absorb sweat but not release it.

PostPosted: 04 Nov 2009 12:47
by MugginsToadwort
We use pure cotton gambesons, with 5-10 layers of cotton and no padding, and we use them even in the African sun. The problem comes in with using synthetic padding or fabric.

In truth, gambeson and layered doublets are a good solution for most weapons simulators. I still worry about steel to the neck area and protection against thrusts, but I'm normally in mail if I'm taking those.

PostPosted: 04 Nov 2009 12:50
by Penderyn
d3o is just one manufacturer of dilatant material this being another one http://www.activeprotectionsystem.com/products.html but this company offer actuall info on their material and its capabilities http://www.activeprotectionsystem.com/images/S-properties.gif

Re: HEMA Body/Leg Protection

PostPosted: 04 Nov 2009 13:10
by Paul B
Dangermouse wrote:
e.g. Fencing Jackets seem to be the norm for rapier work but do not offer much protection to the collar bone from a longsword strike. Would adding collar bone protection to a fencing jacket be too restrictive to somebody doing rapier work?


A longer jacket and removable padding would seem to be the answer there. I think I talked to you about this a little while ago. feel free to PM or email

PostPosted: 04 Nov 2009 21:29
by Dangermouse
We use the Hanwei Rapier Fencing Jackets at the school.

http://www.theknightshop.co.uk/catalog/ ... p-925.html

Personally I think they are rather versatile and have that all important "nod to the past".

Anybody else familiar with them? We find they get very hot and sweaty. I think that they are rather a nice base to work from...

PostPosted: 04 Nov 2009 21:40
by Dangermouse
MugginsToadwort wrote:We use pure cotton gambesons, with 5-10 layers of cotton and no padding, and we use them even in the African sun. The problem comes in with using synthetic padding or fabric.

In truth, gambeson and layered doublets are a good solution for most weapons simulators. I still worry about steel to the neck area and protection against thrusts, but I'm normally in mail if I'm taking those.


Interesting stuff - thanks! I've no experience of pure cotton gambesons - ours are stuffed with wool felt and get very warm!

So gambeson style armour with reinforced clavicle and chest/sternum/abdominal protection looks like it could be a way forward.

PostPosted: 04 Nov 2009 21:48
by Monster Zero
admin wrote:
Monster Zero wrote:G3 Material


You mean D3o.


Yes, that's it...

Re: HEMA Body/Leg Protection

PostPosted: 21 Jan 2015 14:03
by Arno P
Thought I'd mention the torso protection I've settled on after a long search and plenty of experimentation, including with riot gear (good for cuts but too gapped for thrusts I felt):
http://www.gryphonhockey.com/2015/product/body-suit/

body_suit.jpg
body_suit.jpg (23.32 KiB) Viewed 11675 times


I fence backsword and smallsword and go up against the same as well as against rapier (light & heavy), sidesword, longsword, sabre (light & heavy). I had a thick padded jacket (Negrini Historical Fencing jacket for master in white) for years and found it very hot and sweaty. Therefore instead of getting a similarly thick SPES jacket I wanted to take a modular / layered approach starting with a much more cool and breathable standard sports fencing jacket that I can use when training and sparring with light weapons and that dries quickly overnight when at events so as not to have to start the day in a cold wet jacket ;-). Then the idea was to add additional protection when needed for heavier weapons.

The Gryphon Field Hockey Goalie Body Suit fits the bill nicely, especially when combined with the PBT neck protector to complete the sternum and neck protection and to add even more clavicle protection. It can be put on and taken off in seconds. It goes further down over the abdomen than most field hockey goalie protectors. The individual square cells that you see are padded and have a fairly hard gapless core yet the thing as a whole really doesn't hinder mobility. I wanted something that would protect against heavy cuts as well as against strong thrusts, and apart from obvious gaps around the edges, e.g. armpits, the entire surface in black consists of these hard cells which do the job well. I did not find the elbow and arm protectors that you see in the picture useful, but they are detachable. The back is exposed, but the clavicle bone area is covered. The furthest back bit of the clavicle bones, i.e. the last line of cells angled towards the rear, don't have as hard a core but the whole still protects well against downward strikes I think, especially in combination with the PBT neck protector.

Available e.g. from hockeyfactoryshop (UK):
http://www.hockeyfactoryshop.co.uk/acat ... rmour.html