George Silver's short sword

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Postby Caz » 17 Jun 2009 08:51

Lucy wrote:
admin wrote:This is the earliest surviving dateable example of an English basket hilt that I know of, and has a full crossguard:
http://www.maryrose.org/ship/hand2.htm


That's amazing. I would like that exact one, please. From the Mary Rose.

It would make a brilliant conversation piece if mounted on the wall.


Wilkinson did a "replica" of it some years back, I don't know if I can find any details/images.

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Postby admin » 16 Jul 2009 15:16

As Oz notes on the CHC forum, there is an example in top condition in the Royal Armouries:
http://collections.royalarmouries.org/i ... zIjt9&pg=1

Notice the great similarity with both the Mary Rose and the 'Naseby' examples. They could have come out of the same workshop almost. The arrangement of hilt bars is very similar and the hollow ball pommels are almost the same.

I cannot tell whether the Mary Rose and Naseby examples are double-edged or backswords, but this is clearly double-edged.
Also of note are the grooves in the ricasso either side of the base of the fuller - it is perhaps reminiscant of Oakeshott's Type XIX blades:
http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_spotxix.html
http://www.antique-swords.co.uk/

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Postby Motley » 16 Jul 2009 23:02

admin wrote:As Oz notes on the CHC forum, there is an example in top condition in the Royal Armouries:
http://collections.royalarmouries.org/i ... zIjt9&pg=1


I bet the guy that dropped that was pissed off! I wonder what the story was....

I really like the look of these early basket hilts.
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Postby Paul » 17 Jul 2009 15:20

Motley wrote:
admin wrote:As Oz notes on the CHC forum, there is an example in top condition in the Royal Armouries:
http://collections.royalarmouries.org/i ... zIjt9&pg=1


I bet the guy that dropped that was pissed off! I wonder what the story was....


Why? Assuming the museum cares for it properly, I think important antiques should be in a museum, where they can be studied, and not in someone's private collection.

Besides, I think archeological discoveries belong to all of us, not just to the person lucky enough to find it.
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Postby admin » 17 Jul 2009 15:34

Paul, he means the original owner who dropped it in the River Thames in the 16thC.
http://www.antique-swords.co.uk/

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Postby admin » 18 Aug 2009 16:56

I have noted another example of an early English basket-hilt with a crossguard in this book:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Illustrated-Enc ... 0754818519

It was not a very good book, so I did not buy it, but it did show an (unlocated/unidentified) early basket hilt which had a very closed basket (no fingering here!) and long quillons projecting. It was of an English form, rather than the German type. Sadly I could find no referrence in the book as to where the sword is.
http://www.antique-swords.co.uk/

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Postby Nikos » 18 Aug 2009 18:15

I have that book, its full of pretty pictures of swords I would like to know more about, and yet it has a pitiful amount of information on each peice, its really just a nice glossy coffee table book, shame, could have been good.

Are you refering to what they list as 'German Broadsword, c.1550.' It has a wide straight quillon, simple basket on the outside and raised ring on the inside, its only sword I can see on a flick through that fits the bill.
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Postby admin » 18 Aug 2009 18:18

Hmm, I don't think so. I'm pretty sure it was in the 17thC section and listed as circa.1610 or something like that. And the basket was very complete - made of flat steel, not bars.
http://www.antique-swords.co.uk/

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Postby Nikos » 18 Aug 2009 20:48

Okay I thought you were looking at something earlier, not sure which one it was then and I had to get going (its at work), if we can work out which one it is I can put a scan up of it.
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Re: George Silver's short sword

Postby admin » 13 Sep 2012 17:10

An early English basket hilt sword coming up for sale at Christies (estimate £800-1000):
Attachments
earlyEnglish1.JPG
earlyEnglish1.JPG (7.16 KiB) Viewed 14101 times
http://www.antique-swords.co.uk/

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Re: George Silver's short sword

Postby the_last_alive » 13 Sep 2012 19:55

admin wrote:An early English basket hilt sword coming up for sale at Christies (estimate £800-1000):


Link?
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Re: George Silver's short sword

Postby the_last_alive » 13 Sep 2012 20:19

the_last_alive wrote:
admin wrote:An early English basket hilt sword coming up for sale at Christies (estimate £800-1000):


Link?


Just found it. Some very nice stuff in that auction... Now why aren't I a millionaire yet?!?! :)
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Re: George Silver's short sword

Postby Cutlery Penguin » 13 Sep 2012 21:01

Anyone want to give me £800-1000?
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Re: George Silver's short sword

Postby admin » 21 Sep 2012 21:43

http://www.antique-swords.co.uk/

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Re: George Silver's short sword

Postby Jonathan Waller » 22 Sep 2012 16:24

When I was last at the NAM, they also have a nice portrait of ECW where he has a nice earlyish basket hilt, similar to this one.
I took a picture but my phone has been playing up.
Just found it on their website.
http://www.nam.ac.uk/online-collection/detail.php?acc=2006-06-8-1

Interesting that it has the round ridged pommel, similar to the ones on the Mary Rose and Thames basket hilted swords from the previous century...
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Re: George Silver's short sword

Postby admin » 22 Sep 2012 20:24

Yes, I call that the Terrys Chocolate Orange pommel. It does look like either this was an old sword at the time of the painting, or simply a survival of an older style.
http://www.antique-swords.co.uk/

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Re: George Silver's short sword

Postby scalawag » 22 Sep 2012 20:58

Jonathan Waller wrote:When I was last at the NAM, they also have a nice portrait of ECW where he has a nice earlyish basket hilt, similar to this one.
I took a picture but my phone has been playing up.
Just found it on their website.
http://www.nam.ac.uk/online-collection/detail.php?acc=2006-06-8-1

Interesting that it has the round ridged pommel, similar to the ones on the Mary Rose and Thames basket hilted swords from the previous century...



That's odd, looks like the fuller is at the front/sharp edge of the blade as opposed to back? That's if it's a back sword or it's another weird perspective error from the painter :)
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Re: George Silver's short sword

Postby admin » 22 Sep 2012 21:23

I think it is just a fullered blade (like below), where the light is catching the inside of the front of the fuller.

http://www.fioredeiliberi.org/antique-s ... nch1822-1/
http://www.antique-swords.co.uk/

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Re: George Silver's short sword

Postby Jonathan Waller » 23 Sep 2012 18:24

I think it is an interesting transitional hilt, the pommel especially but some of the features on the basket very much 16th century and others, like the pierced plates becoming more what one see later in 17th century....

Though of course as you say it could be older.
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Re: George Silver's short sword

Postby Jonathan Waller » 03 Dec 2012 20:33

http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/19796/lot/166/
This was part of the Christensen collection tha was recently auctioned at Bonhams.

The sword is similar in form to the one from the NAM portrait minus the ridged ball pommel
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