Standard Sparring/Practice Armour (Updated: with pictures)

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Postby Motley » 23 Mar 2009 20:21

Nuggan wrote:
Hand Protection: I've sorted the basic ones out, basically its a pad or pads that are attached ot the Vambrace and strapped round the palm giving protection without the loss of movement.
The more heavier ones for Longsword use I am still working on but simply put they are a Mitten type use single flat plates attached to each other that slid over the hand and strap on the same way by wrapping thoning/strapping roudn the palm and also if needs be the fingers, tye should be able to be worn over gloves of even bare hands and not restrict movement in the wrist but also provide proctection for it aswell.


I have been trying to think of something similar recently but using water hardened leather for the plates. A mitten that slipped over a glove seemed like a good idea to me and as I thought of it most techniques even in stretto should be possible as long as you can grab and the glove it's self isn't too bulky.

In a way a mitten may even be better as it should stop individual fingers getting caught and injured during a grapple. As long as it is still possible to open and close the hand and change grip.
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Postby Nuggan » 23 Mar 2009 20:28

Well that's actually what im working on at this exact moment, knocking out a few prototypes using different materials and ways of attaching them. Ill post up results later and ill be taking some of them to test out with people on Thursady so ill have more definitive results then.


(I was just going through a old box of things and found the first piece of armour I ever made that I was happy with and it's held up really well, the problem is i've completely fogotten how I made it, which is a real shame as i've just had it attached to a testing mannequin and been attacking the the thing like mad and its stood up really well).
Last edited by Nuggan on 24 Mar 2009 01:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Motley » 23 Mar 2009 20:36

Nuggan wrote:Well that's actually what im working on at this exact moment, knocking out a few prototypes using different materials and ways of attaching them. Ill post up results later and ill be taking some of them to test out with people on Thursady so ill have more definitive results then.


Sound familiar I was cutting up cereal packets to get a cardboard mock-up made a few weeks ago. ;-)
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Postby admin » 24 Mar 2009 11:42

I agree with Dan about the mitten-over-glove. I may change my opinion, but at the moment I think this is the way to go (at least for my tastes).

Nuggan, there are some pieces that are universal and will vary little between groups - for example a plastic plastron which covers the collar-bones. Or a gorget. Or forearm/elbow protectors. Or shin/knee protectors.
At the moment it seems the main differences of opinion are on gloves and tops/backs of masks.
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Postby Nuggan » 24 Mar 2009 18:17

Actually and idea just came to me that i'm going to test out. Basically the idea of a standard leather glove on any type and panels attached on the outside that can be replace covering the main areas.
It will be sort of like a cross between the Mitten and a Glove so the fingers can still move but over them is a single flat piece of plastic or metal or hardened leather "grafted" onto the intial glove, without going for the need to have a full Mitten (which includes the need for things like hinging etc),

admin wrote:At the moment it seems the main differences of opinion are on gloves and tops/backs of masks.

You have one of the Leon Paul coaching masks correct? the £100. I picked one up aswell and as they have a different system than the basic masks for making them fit with the sort of disk/cup thing instead, what I was thinking was something long the lines of a curved panel (possibly even reinforced and padded using the same stuff in the mask) attached through that disk so it can be removed/replaced/altered easily/
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Postby Nikos » 24 Mar 2009 18:55

Yeh I was thinking about that as well, the reason I am not doing it as most of our members have the more basic masks and not the comfort fit system with the plastic disc as comes on the coaching, club and other top end masks. My policy generally is to find kit that my members can use as well as others, hence why I am going to try the Hammaborg approach of fitting a back onto a leather top, which if you buy from PBT rather than Leon Paul are £10 cheaper.
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Postby admin » 25 Mar 2009 11:50

Nuggan wrote:You have one of the Leon Paul coaching masks correct? the £100. I picked one up aswell and as they have a different system than the basic masks for making them fit with the sort of disk/cup thing instead, what I was thinking was something long the lines of a curved panel (possibly even reinforced and padded using the same stuff in the mask) attached through that disk so it can be removed/replaced/altered easily/


Yes, a couple of us have done this using a plastic section cut out of a toy policeman's helmet! That's not really tough enough for steel impacts though, it needs to be made of tougher plastic with some padding, and probably therefore some holes for ventilation.
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Postby Nuggan » 25 Mar 2009 13:49

admin wrote:
Nuggan wrote:You have one of the Leon Paul coaching masks correct? the £100. I picked one up aswell and as they have a different system than the basic masks for making them fit with the sort of disk/cup thing instead, what I was thinking was something long the lines of a curved panel (possibly even reinforced and padded using the same stuff in the mask) attached through that disk so it can be removed/replaced/altered easily/


Yes, a couple of us have done this using a plastic section cut out of a toy policeman's helmet! That's not really tough enough for steel impacts though, it needs to be made of tougher plastic with some padding, and probably therefore some holes for ventilation.


Well I've got some proper plastic: High Impact Plastic, ABS, Poly and Fibreglass so ill do one in each and test them out. They of course can always be reinforced with the same metal mesh used in the mask itself you can by it it metres over the Interweb. Padding isn'ta problem either, i';ve got a few idea on that front.
Cost shouldn't be to much for any of them anyway so its not a problem on that front.
The ventilation mightbe though. It would probably come done do drilling holes in it.

Update of Glove/Mittens: Got some basic panels cut out and found some decent pin/hinges so making plastic Mittens in possible. Strapping can either be leather thonging, velcro straps or clips with synthetic straps.

Working on the simple panel ones aswell, just a matter of finding the best way of attaching them to gloves. What might be best is getting comabt/shooting/repeling gloves (they come with hard panels on them sewn inside and just gluing on the new ones on the outside over them, then attaching one flat plate to the fingers.

Ill post pics of everything tonight, found scanner and software.
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Postby admin » 25 Mar 2009 13:54

Would it be possible to articulate the mitten by attaching the plates to a cloth base, rather than with rivet hinges? Just an idea, it might make the thing more flexible.
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Postby Motley » 25 Mar 2009 14:37

I was thinking riveted to leather straps which sit over padding so the rivet ends don't transmit all the force to you hand.

For attaching to back of the hand protection, I had the idea of using these thick elastic bands that you get wrapped around broccoli of all things. This would allow the mitten to expand as you close you fist but also keep it snug as you opened and contracted it. It worked ok in my card and masking tape mockup.
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Postby Stevie T » 25 Mar 2009 16:08

Image

I came up with the idea of attaching lycra tubes to a glove then inserting plastic mitten pieces into the tubing.

The individual pieces could be shaped more than shown in my quick sketch so that they cover the sides of the hands better.

I the lycra tubing is a good bit smaller than the plastic plates they should stay in position well and a bit of experimentation should help get the tubes lined up properly.
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Postby Nikos » 25 Mar 2009 16:20

Stevie whilst I am sure that could work, the end result would be no different to the leather armadillo guantlets, which are simple and easy to get hold of, also remember, the hand isn't clenched into a fist when you hold a sword and the finger tips are one of the most vulnerable places
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Postby Stevie T » 25 Mar 2009 17:16

Nikos wrote:Stevie whilst I am sure that could work, the end result would be no different to the leather armadillo guantlets, which are simple and easy to get hold of, also remember, the hand isn't clenched into a fist when you hold a sword and the finger tips are one of the most vulnerable places


It was just a quick rough sketch on the PC, it wasn't meant to be a full spec CAD prototype or anything, just enough to convey and idea.

With smaller tubes or loops along the finger/thumb it would be very easy to do idividual plates to allow movement while still offering as much protection as fingered gauntlets, if not more.
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Postby Nuggan » 31 Mar 2009 17:52

Okay apologies for the long delay but here are finally some of the designs/sketches, some of them now due to the time frame when drawn up are no longer "valid" but here they are all the same.

There are serveral more ill post up later, these would be more ideas but also finalised plans for complete pieces.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
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Cheery: Oh, good.
Angua: They wouldn't be any use.
Cheery: Oh.
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Postby nate » 18 Jun 2009 21:56

Just wondering nuggan if you'd got anywhere with your designs or prototypes for protection, would be cool to see pics or about any testing you've done.
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Postby Nuggan » 19 Jun 2009 00:13

Work and entertainment got in the way but yeah i've gotten through various prototype materials and designs. I've got all my work stuff done so I can contcentrate on this and some filming stuff I should be ready from some full practice trials hopefully next thurday. So i Should get some pics and whatnot up soon.
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Cheery: Oh.
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Postby Corpsie » 19 Jun 2009 08:37

Nuggan wrote:Work and entertainment got in the way but yeah i've gotten through various prototype materials and designs. I've got all my work stuff done so I can contcentrate on this and some filming stuff I should be ready from some full practice trials hopefully next thurday. So i Should get some pics and whatnot up soon.


*cough* And some basket hilt prototypes....
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Postby nate » 19 Jun 2009 11:22

Wicked, thanks for that. Looking forward to seeing what you've come up with. :D
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