Early history of the modern fencing: sabre, ...

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Postby Ulrich von L...n » 22 Mar 2020 09:51

Part II

"Matt Easton
Cold Steel is explicitly described at the start as for 'the light sabre' - in other words the Italian Parise style fencing sabre. Cold Steel is not a military manual in the same sense that Hutton's other manuals are. Cold Steel is about trying to make sabre fencing more fun and 'varied', as Hutton puts it. Skip forward to 1897 and Hutton has you grappling with Afghans, pommeling them in the face. It's related, but rather different. As I have shown above, in other works Hutton is explicit about using a practice sword - the regulation 1864 - which corresponds to the weapon a soldier would use in the field.

Matt Easton
Matt Easton And for the record, in 1896 Hutton was so annoyed by Masiello's 1895 method that he published a whole pamphlet to criticize it. He may have been a fan of early Parise, but he certainly was not a fan of Masiello/Radaelli.

Joe Dedrick
Matt Easton Is it me or is it a tradition for English masters to diss on others especially Italians

Matt Easton
Matt Easton Opinions were divided in this period between the French and Italian schools. Most Brits followed the French, but there was a brief period of popularity for Italian. Then it swung back to French again and then everything became sport fencing.

Matt Easton
Matt Easton Also for the record ;) Hutton was a student of Henry Angelo since teenage years and that was the strongest influence on his earlier sabre material. Together with George Chapman. I don't think he was trying particularly hard to emulate Parise - rather it was fashionable and he was interested with Cold Steel in trying to create sport sabre fencing. With Camille Prevost he achieved this and was instrumental in creating sport sabre for the Olympics.

Jordan Williams
Jordan Williams Matt Easton your comments are much appreciated! Especially with the book excerpt from his earlier work.

Matt Easton
Matt Easton Regarding original British practice sabres, there was a lot of variety. Here is an article where I weighed and measured a bunch from my collection. Note though that the Masiello pattern (1895) is actually heavier than any of the 1864 patterns LOL The 1864 patterns got up to 820g while the Masiello type is 830g....
https://www.antique-swords.co.uk/1864-p ... practice...
1864 Pattern Practice Sword Or Gymnasium Sabre

Matt Easton
Matt Easton Christoph Amberger's article linked above needs eradicating from the internet. It is deliberately misinforming, I presume to justify the weights of modern sport sabres (I have a Wilkinson one here that weighs 380g...). The 1796 light cav sabre is normally around 800-900g, not the 570g he quotes and the 1895 practice sabre is usually over 800g, not the 620g he quotes. He has either searched for the lightest conceivable examples he could find, which are complete outliers, or he got his numbers wrong.

Patrick Nicholas
Patrick Nicholas Matt Easton good to know: I'd heard of 1796s more in the 750-800 range.

Matt Easton
Matt Easton Most are over 800g and some are nearly 1000g.

See my article here: https://www.antique-swords.co.uk/how-mu ... -pattern...
How Much Do 1796 Pattern Light Cavalry Sabres Weigh

Matt Easton
Matt Easton A final comment before I turn in for the night: I am a fan of Hutton's works, but not really Cold Steel so much. I am not against using lighter sabres for practice and we've been discussing getting some ~700g sabres so we can focus on some particular s…"
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