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Traité sur la contrepointe - Valville - 1817

PostPosted: 01 Nov 2012 06:37
by Ulrich von L...n
A. VALVILLE, Traité sur la contre-pointe, St Petersbourg
Imprimerie de Charles Kray, 1817
45 pages with 24 copperplates, in Russian and French

Edit (2015):
Now this valuable source isn't a fragment (just a few images) any more, but a complete treatise.
Thanks Carissimus!
https://yadi.sk/i/JgJec1kEcUqFu

Some images (posted in 2012):
val_1.jpg
val_1.jpg (137.28 KiB) Viewed 8779 times

val_2.jpg
val_2.jpg (19.45 KiB) Viewed 8779 times

PostPosted: 01 Nov 2012 06:39
by Ulrich von L...n
val_3.jpg
val_3.jpg (95.34 KiB) Viewed 8778 times

val_4.jpg
val_4.jpg (130.11 KiB) Viewed 8778 times

PostPosted: 01 Nov 2012 06:44
by Ulrich von L...n
val_5.jpg
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val_6.jpg
val_6.jpg (108.28 KiB) Viewed 8778 times

Re: Traité sur la contrepointe - Valville - 1817 (fragment)

PostPosted: 01 Nov 2012 09:41
by Ju
Great!

Re: Traité sur la contrepointe - Valville - 1817 (fragment)

PostPosted: 01 Nov 2012 13:29
by admin
Umm wow! Is the rest of it available anywhere?

Re: Traité sur la contrepointe - Valville - 1817 (fragment)

PostPosted: 01 Nov 2012 19:43
by Ulrich von L...n
Unfortunately, no.
At least for the moment.

These images are from a Russian action site, it allows kind of sneak preview into the auctioned books. So I have some additional images: the author's dedication to the emperor (2 short pages), the beginning of Chapter 1 (2 short pages). I will translate the relevant parts of those pages

Re: Traité sur la contrepointe - Valville - 1817 (fragment)

PostPosted: 01 Nov 2012 23:26
by admin
Interesting that the footwork shown in val_4 above is just like that shown in the 1843 treatise viewtopic.php?f=22&t=19378
I wonder if this footwork is a signature of Russian sabre?

PostPosted: 02 Nov 2012 06:39
by Ulrich von L...n
val_8a.jpg
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PostPosted: 02 Nov 2012 06:41
by Ulrich von L...n
val_10a.jpg
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val_11a.jpg
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Re: Traité sur la contrepointe - Valville - 1817 (fragment)

PostPosted: 15 Nov 2012 22:42
by Thearos
Can I ask what the guy is wearing in image val-3 ? It looks like longsword sparring gear and a Mongolian helmet ? wtf ?

PostPosted: 03 Jan 2014 10:33
by Ulrich von L...n
The Russian title of this book is:
Вальвиль, Александр.
Рассуждение о искусстве владеть шпагою [Текст] / А. Вальвиль = Traite Sur la contre-pointe, par Valville, Maitre en fait d'armes / A. Valville : сочинение фейхтместера Вальвиля: [пер. с фр.].

An interesting moment!

This book has been republished in 2007:
"... репринт. воспр. - М. : Ритм, 2007. - [14], 45, [1] с., [18] л. ил. - Изд-е парал. на рус. и фр. яз. -
ISBN 978-5-901506-03-0 : 449.10 р. Вых. дан. ориг.: СПб. : в тип. Карла Краия, 1817. Дар гос. общественно-публичной библиотеки (г. Москва)"

PostPosted: 09 Feb 2014 08:40
by Ulrich von L...n
Three additional copperplates from another auction site:

valville_3.jpg
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PostPosted: 09 Feb 2014 08:42
by Ulrich von L...n
Page 9:

valville_9.jpg
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PostPosted: 09 Feb 2014 08:43
by Ulrich von L...n
Page 12:

valville_12.jpg
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PostPosted: 09 Feb 2014 08:49
by Ulrich von L...n
The above copperplates are from this Russian site:
http://anticvarium.ru/auction1/item/val ... -1817.html

There is a short annotation for this lot:

"Книга представляет собой учебник для дуэлянтов. Автор - француз Александр Вальвиль, прибывший в Россию в конце XVIII века. В 1812 году он был назначен учителем фехтования в Царскосельском Лицее. По воспоминаниям М. Корфа, одним из лучших учеников Вальвиля был Александр Пушкин. Свой труд об искусстве владеть шпагой автор создавал 22 года. В последней главе книги он подробно описывает план фехтовального зала и дает советы о том, как лучше организовать работу учителей. Он настаивает на ежедневных занятиях фехтованием и предлагает в конце каждого года учителям проводить турнир между лучшими учениками полков в присутствии Государя Императора. «Таким образом, появится много хороших фехтмейстеров, а через несколько лет все кавалерийские Дивизии Армии можно будет снабдить фехтовальными учителями». Многие проекты А. Вальвиля впоследствии были реализованы.Редкое иллюстрированное издание пушкинского времени. СК 1801-1825. № 960; Обольянинов. № 314. Соловьев. Кат. № 100: Редкие книги. № 29: («Очень редкое и любопытное издание» -20 руб.)."

Later this annotation will be translated.

Re: Traité sur la contrepointe - Valville - 1817 (fragment)

PostPosted: 18 Jun 2015 14:43
by Carissimus

Re: Traité sur la contrepointe - Valville - 1817 (fragment)

PostPosted: 19 Jun 2015 09:44
by KeithFarrell
Carissimus wrote:Full traite
https://yadi.sk/i/JgJec1kEcUqFu


This is a very interesting treatise - thanks for the link!

Re: Traité sur la contrepointe - Valville - 1817 (fragment)

PostPosted: 25 Jun 2015 20:17
by Max C.
Thank you! Its a very interesting manual and very rich for its size. It gives some unique information, while using the same terminology as later French manuals. It is also interesting to find information on Scottish and Hungarian swordsmanship inside (at least a depiction of guards). I think I'll try to come up with a translation.

Re: Traité sur la contrepointe - Valville - 1817 (fragment)

PostPosted: 27 Jun 2015 21:31
by Thearos
Coup double-- you lunge and attack (e.g. cut to head), opponent starts to parry but moves out of distance, you recover forward (pulling left leg forward) and move into second lunge and attack (thrust at chest). I remember some Swedes describing this manoeuver. Sounds good.

PostPosted: 28 Jun 2015 14:42
by Ulrich von L...n
Thearos wrote:Can I ask what the guy is wearing in image val-3 ? It looks like longsword sparring gear and a Mongolian helmet ? wtf ?
(in 2012)
Now I can answer you question. IIRC this is the last plate of the treatise and the text says that it depicts a Slavonic warrior. I have serious doubts about the historical accuracy of the image.