Official Method of Bayonet Fencing by french ministry of war

(1801-1900)

Official Method of Bayonet Fencing by french ministry of war

Postby Ju » 27 Aug 2012 12:07

Few books by the french ministry of war countain a more or less important chapter about bayonet fencing in the XIX century :

-"Règlement sur l'exercice et les manœuvres des régiments d'infanterie de carabiniers et de chasseurs à pied" (1860) :
Cinquième leçon, page (72 in the pdf Doc)

http://books.google.fr/books?id=-Q5GAAA ... ntcover&dq


-Manœuvres de l’infanterie (1870)
Article VI, page 120 (122 in the pdf Doc)

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k28097h


-Nouveau manuel de la Garde Nationale sédentaire, contenant les lois des 10 août 1870, 15 mars, 20 mai et 12 juin 1850, l'école du soldat, l'école de peloton, la manœuvre du fusil Chassepot, du fusil dit à tabatière,du fusil à percussion.‎ (1870) :
Article VI, page 143 (147 in the pdf Doc)

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k370547v


-Règlement du 12 juin 1875 sur les manœuvres de l'infanterie ; avec un rapport à m. le Ministre de la guerre. T.1­2 (1875) :
Article VI, page 113 (191 in the pdf Doc)

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k28113x.r=Réglement du 12 juin 1875 su…


Le Règlement du 15 avril 1894 sur l'Exercice et les Manoeuvres de l'Infanterie
Ministère de la Guerre
1894, Paris
Titre II, page 71 (37 in the pdf Doc)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByGICce ... 1XcUU/edit
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Re: Official Method of Bayonet Fencing by french ministry of

Postby Ju » 27 Aug 2012 12:18

I forget that^^ :

"Exercices et manœuvres de l’infanterie, classés et développés par M. Soyer" (1846)
page 3 (13 in the PDF Doc)

This document contain a small part about bayonnet fencing, it's a covert of an earlier method, contain in the
"Instruction provisoire sur l'exercice et les manœuvres des bataillons de chasseurs à pied", 1841


http://books.google.fr/books?id=MH1MAAA ... ntcover&hl
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Re: Official Method of Bayonet Fencing by french ministry of

Postby admin » 29 Aug 2012 16:55

Cool 8)
http://www.antique-swords.co.uk/

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Re: Official Method of Bayonet Fencing by french ministry of

Postby Ju » 13 Oct 2012 14:29

Garde Nationnale, Petit traité de l'école du soldat, Manœuvres de l'Infanterie
Paris, 1870

Methgod for National Guard (the same method :
-Nouveau manuel de la Garde Nationale sédentaire, contenant les lois des 10 août 1870, 15 mars, 20 mai et 12 juin 1850, l'école du soldat, l'école de peloton, la manœuvre du fusil Chassepot, du fusil dit à tabatière,du fusil à percussion.‎ (1870) :
Article VI, page 143 (147 in the pdf Doc)

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k370547v
), but illustrated.


https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByGICce ... RWTEU/edit
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Re: Official Method of Bayonet Fencing by french ministry of

Postby Ju » 14 Nov 2012 18:47

One of the oldest :

Pas gymnastique. Escrime à la bayonette et supplément à l'école des tirailleurs en usage aux chasseurs d'Orléans et dans plusieurs corps de l'armée. (1849)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByGICce ... IwSk0/edit
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Re: Official Method of Bayonet Fencing by french ministry of

Postby admin » 16 Nov 2012 12:03

French bayonet method as featured in the Illustrated London News in 1860:
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french-bayonet.jpg
french-bayonet.jpg (83.33 KiB) Viewed 4283 times
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Re: Official Method of Bayonet Fencing by french ministry of

Postby Ju » 16 Nov 2012 15:18

Very strange, because, I've never seen a French "official" method with some guards this picture.
It's look like the Gomard's method (than I post here this week^^), but pics 8, 9, 24 aren't in this method...
In 1860, they were few other method (for the list, I've a "repertory", on the DTE forum http://de-taille-et-destoc.xooit.com/t2728-Repertoire-des-sources-de-Baionnette.htm)...
I've read o lot of this "private" method, but never saw some of this movement, so, we have 2 proability :
-may be the reporter didn't understand that he saw, or didn't remember, so it's an error.
-Or, may be the journalist saw a demonstration of one of the authors of this period : probabbly m.Châtain, or an other unknown author...

In any case, it's very interresting!
Thanks!
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Re: Official Method of Bayonet Fencing by french ministry of

Postby Max C. » 28 Nov 2012 17:25

I've discussed this phenomenon with canne and baton researchers and what they all say is that masters simply didn't followed the official curriculum to the letter. The French army only really started to have an official method by the mid 19th century with Joinville Le Pont which was created specifically because of the lack of unity in training, and by then various traditions were already well in place. The manuals contained good suggestions but they weren't holy scriptures and instructors would often ignore them in favour of their own.

The American army was very close to the French army, and so it wouldn't be surprising if these images were drawn from some joint training exercise.
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Re: Official Method of Bayonet Fencing by french ministry of

Postby admin » 29 Nov 2012 17:00

FYI, it was exactly the same in regard to British bayonet, infantry sword and cavalry sword training. In many cases regiments seem to have their own very different systems (which are mostly now, sadly, unrecorded and lost).
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Re: Official Method of Bayonet Fencing by french ministry of

Postby Ju » 20 Mar 2013 20:58

An other version of this method
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k28097h

Published for public :

Pour tout le monde, Gymnastique, école du soldat, escrime.
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Felix Vernay, les bons livres
Probably 1870

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByGICce ... xRUHc/edit

Interesting because associated with gymnastic and foil fencing, and it's not so common in 1870!
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Re: Official Method of Bayonet Fencing by french ministry of

Postby Ju » 17 Jun 2013 09:11

An other version for national gard, with different drawing.

Petit manuel du garde national (1870)
By Ministère de la Guerre
Lyon
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByGICce ... labFE/edit


Image

Image
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