Easy on the Indes

Liechtenauer lineage and related sources (eg. Sigmund Ringeck, Peter von Danzig, Paulus Kal, Hans Talhoffer), interpretation and practice. Open to public view.

Easy on the Indes

Postby tabiris » 24 Jan 2014 17:05

So this is something that's been occupying my mind for the last few days. Figured I'd put it on paper. Or the internet. Same thing, kinda.

http://hemareviews.blogspot.com/2014/01/easy-on-indes.html

Any comments and criticism will be welcome!
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Re: Easy on the Indes

Postby KeithFarrell » 24 Jan 2014 18:06

I like the article, thank you for posting!

I think it is very telling in Ringeck's gloss that Indes is paired with Fühlen more often than with Vor and Indes. It seems to be connected more strongly with binding and winding rather than with the "timeline" of Vor and Nach. It still has a place in the timeline, but it is better to focus on either controlling the Vor or controlling the Nach for beginners, and for advanced people utilise the Indes action *from the bind* for safety. Thus the connection with Fühlen is realised, and there are fewer opportunities for double hits when people respond to an attack with an "Indes" attack of their own.

Very good note about reading the body language too. Choosing the correct reaction from reading the body language correctly does provide a greater chance of performing the correct sort of response - such as the Zwerhaw against an Oberhaw if he looks like he is going to come with an Oberhaw. This is something that people often miss: reading the fight and not just acting.

When Alex Bourdas and I were in the process of writing the AHA German Longsword Study Guide, we originally placed Indes firmly within the "Vor -> Indes -> Nach" timeline. Later, we realised that Indes was usually only mentioned in reference to binds and Fühlen, so we took the explanation for the concept out of the timeline discussion and placed it firmly in the binding and winding chapter, beside Fühlen. Later, we realised that Indes did still belong in the timeline, but not in the way that we had originally thought.

It is impossible to discussing the concepts of winding without Fühlen or Indes, yet it is possible to work simply in the Vor or in the Nach without working Indes in terms of the timeline. Not good practice, perhaps, but you can work without Indes in the timeline. However, by adding Indes (and the associations therefore with Fühlen, winding, and acting from the bind) to the timeline, one can begin to perform some very skilful actions to interrupt an opponent who has taken the Vor and to rob him of his initiative.
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