Summer Longsword Pieces

Liechtenauer lineage and related sources (eg. Sigmund Ringeck, Peter von Danzig, Paulus Kal, Hans Talhoffer), interpretation and practice. Open to public view.

Summer Longsword Pieces

Postby martin fabian » 15 Aug 2012 14:17

Hi guys,
I would like to present you our new short video showing some summer longword practice. Feel free to comment:)

http://youtu.be/8SoCRiETBsE
martin fabian
Recruit in training
 
Posts: 8
Joined: 18 Jan 2012 16:42

Re: Summer Longsword Pieces

Postby Payson » 15 Aug 2012 23:46

All your guys videos are inspiring to watch, thanks for putting them up. :D
User avatar
Payson
Sergeant
 
Posts: 109
Joined: 21 Oct 2010 23:37
Location: York, UK

Re: Summer Longsword Pieces

Postby martin fabian » 17 Aug 2012 11:00

Thank you very much!
martin fabian
Recruit in training
 
Posts: 8
Joined: 18 Jan 2012 16:42

Re: Summer Longsword Pieces

Postby Herbert » 18 Aug 2012 10:35

Great video and good techniques.

Personally I am not totally convinced of the way you seem to train and execute the techniques.
While the techniques themselves are executed very exact and fast, the moment and flow of them is not realistic in my opinion.

Especially in the first half each one executes one technique and then stops. (you would/should continue) You also rush in a lot, especially with the Scheitelhau. This is something you would not want to do, because it puts you in extreme danger. Just imagine the other stabs because he misjudges your intent...
Overall I see that you take a lot of risks because you know what your opponent does. Not realistic if you are fighting a stranger with sharp blades.

The speed is also unrealistic because you are using feathers (Federn). With proper swords of this length the speed and handling changes considerably. But this is another discussion.

I know that my opinion is quite controversial but this is a development I see a lot - more sport and less realistic martial art.

But please bear in mind – this is only my opinion based on a few seconds of video. I am probably completely wrong with my opinion. I am not judging, just pointing out a few things that I noticed.

Thanks for showing the video. This is a way we can all learn. Thank you!

Herbert
User avatar
Herbert
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 1023
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 09:40
Location: Austria

Re: Summer Longsword Pieces

Postby martin fabian » 18 Aug 2012 12:07

Hi Herbert!
First, let me thank for your input.

My very first question: What do you mean by unrealistic and what do you mean by realistic? I am a 21st century fencer reconstructing HEMAs techniques to train and practice (what we want to be) a martial art and a combat/competitive sport, with weapons similar in design and properties to those used before. And I, you and most of the HEMA population will (most probably) not ever face anyone with a sharp sword/weapon.

The video shows the way how we practice things after years of simple drills combined with sparring experience. From the point od didactics and martial practice it is very hard to train some things with absolute cautiosness, safety etc. and do it with the exact feelings some would say you should have when fighting "for real". In our approach we admire dynamics, speed, accuracy, intention etc and it is the very essence of our practice to incorporate it into the stuff we do. I would rather refer to things you say as to strategy and tactics, which is quite a different chapter. When executed properly, things do work (some friendly sparring http://youtu.be/AUu054k60yw).

Unrealistic speed? The schwerts I use in this video weigh 1,7 and the other more than 1,8kg, what weight do you mean? http://youtu.be/ByxdpgWS9GU Crappy quality, but it is a "normal" sword that has got almost 2kg.

THX a lot for the comments, maybe we'll meet at Dreynevent?
martin fabian
Recruit in training
 
Posts: 8
Joined: 18 Jan 2012 16:42

Re: Summer Longsword Pieces

Postby Herbert » 18 Aug 2012 15:14

Hello Martin,



martin fabian wrote:Hi Herbert!
My very first question: What do you mean by unrealistic and what do you mean by realistic? I am a 21st century fencer reconstructing HEMAs techniques to train and practice (what we want to be) a martial art and a combat/competitive sport, with weapons similar in design and properties to those used before. And I, you and most of the HEMA population will (most probably) not ever face anyone with a sharp sword/weapon.

Yes, I agree and that is a "problem" I am quite happy to have.
But from our very privileged situation arises this problem: most of us tend to dismiss the danger that poses a sharp weapon. Due to our training we are all a lot more careless in our fighting than we would be if an error would cost us a limb, leave us with a considerable wound or would leave us dead.
I usually try to instill this feeling in our classes as well. One would not rush in head on without being sure to be protected. If you look at the I.33, it is all about this. I personally think that the longsword was used in a similar way. Different techniques but similar mindset.


martin fabian wrote:The video shows the way how we practice things after years of simple drills combined with sparring experience. From the point od didactics and martial practice it is very hard to train some things with absolute cautiosness, safety etc. and do it with the exact feelings some would say you should have when fighting "for real".

I totally agree with you. We can't train a deadly martial art while being secure and not being injured. We have to make amends somewhere. The question we all have to answer is: where? I do NOT have the ultimate answer to that.


martin fabian wrote:Unrealistic speed? The schwerts I use in this video weigh 1,7 and the other more than 1,8kg, what weight do you mean? http://youtu.be/ByxdpgWS9GU Crappy quality, but it is a "normal" sword that has got almost 2kg.

The weight of a sword has only a limited meaning. I just have returned from measuring some originals and I have handled quite a lot of them in the past few years. They are not as fast as the Feders are. The weight is not the problem but the distribution of the weight and other factors. I do NOT know the Feders you are using but as far as my experience goes I have yet to encounter a Feder that behaves like a sharp sword of the same length.
Hence you are faster in your technique and have a different binding situation with a lot less power. The inertia of the blade is completely different as is the time it need to act on your input.

These things are very hard to discuss on a forum. Usually I don't start this discussion but to be honest: your video showed a lot of dedication and work so I thought you might be interested in a different viewpoint - especially since you asked.

I do respect your work and I am not in a position to do it better - just different.

Maybe we meet at the Dreynevent if I manage to get the time I need.

best wishes

Herbert
User avatar
Herbert
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 1023
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 09:40
Location: Austria


Return to Johannes Liechtenauer

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest